That if you move to another country you should be learning that language to the best of your capabilities. I work with a lot of foreigners and the amount of them that are incapable or simply unwilling to speak, in my case, Dutch is insanely high. I do think we as a society should invest more in schooling and developing both the native and the new language of course. But learn the fucking language. At least try.
45
Anomalocaris @lemm.ee - 8mon
a) languages are hard. but immersion helps
b) I think the vast majority if expats won't even consider learning the local language.
18
SlayGuevara - 8mon
Languages is hard that's true. An initiative our party took is the 'festival of the mother tongue' in which many different nationalities can showcase their language and local cuisine and whatnot. Really helps people think about language.
Also, it turns out that further developing your native language can also help with learning a new language. Hence why I think it's important to stimulate that as well though reading and stuff.
15
Anomalocaris @lemm.ee - 8mon
also the question is if there are programs to help people learn the local language, rather then demonising them for struggling
Everybody ganster until they have to pronounce arbeidsongeschiktheidsverzekering
9
☭CommieWolf☆ - 8mon
In my top 3 most ridiculous languages for sure, can't keep a straight face listening to those people, lol.
7
KrupskayaPraxis - 8mon
I agree, especially for those American expats
13
☭CommieWolf☆ - 8mon
As a global south citizen, I don't care a single iota about domestic/social cultural policies of western politicians or parties, and would be glad to see a socially conservative movement take power there if it meant an end to Genocide, War, and economic exploitation in my part of the world. I guess it is some form of critical support, same reason I support Iran and Russia in their resistance to Imperialism despite their less than ideal social stances.
31
Comprehensive49 - 8mon
Death penalty is good actually, as long as it isn't used just on minorities. Super useful to scare capitalists.
24
propter_hog [any, any] - 8mon
Death penalty, but only for the bourgeoisie and for politicians who betray the proletariat
26
yet_another_commie - 8mon
And child pr3dators
12
propter_hog [any, any] - 8mon
Oh fuck yes, no list for them, just straight to the guillotine after sentencing
9
Cysio - 8mon
And for supporters of death penalty
4
amemorablename - 8mon
I don't think fear is a good reason to be using the death penalty. Tho tbf, considering the topic question, it does sound pretty right-wing to be wanting to use fear as a tactic to control people.
11
robot_dog_with_gun [they/them] - 8mon
i know deterrence doesn't work for regular crime but maybe it does for white-collar crimes that are premeditated conspiracies and continuously reaffirmed by the perpetrators?
4
amemorablename - 8mon
I mean, I'm not against state intervention in suppressing the capitalist class during the transition to where class doesn't exist. That's an important thing. I'm not even opposed to China's handling of corruption, which sometimes involves death sentence as far as I know - I don't know what reasoning they're operating from and why they think that makes sense for them, so it wouldn't make sense for me to weigh in on it.
But as a general principle concept of promoting death penalty to "scare" "bad people", I don't see how it would accomplish anything on that alone. If regular people commit crimes in spite of scary repression when they are desperate enough, capitalists and the like no doubt will some of the time too because the inertia of their class circumstances drive them toward financial crimes. And fearing getting caught may deter some people some of the time, but it doesn't address the inertia.
I can however think of at least one other reason more directly practical that a socialist state might go for death penalty for some financial crimes. Which is, in dealing with imperialism along with concerns about internal reactionaries, there's always the possibility that a corrupt figure who is influential enough / has strong enough ties can escape or get released later by some form of opposition and used further against the working class.
5
Comprehensive49 - 8mon
The difference is that capitalists aren't desperate. They commit crimes just to make numbers get bigger. Just fining corporations for doing crimes doesn't do anything, because then it just becomes a cost of doing business. You must attack the people in the corporations making the decisions to make money, and the death penalty is one of the tools for that.
To understand the use of the death penalty, imagine how many worker hours a capitalist who steals a billion dollars takes away. Assuming the average US salary (~$66,000) and working lifespan (77.43 years - 20 yr childhood), they've stolen the entire life earnings of 264 Americans. These calcs look even worse for any non-U.S. country because the theft is usually done in USD, but all the workers make a much less valuable currency.
As of now, China mostly uses death sentence with reprieve for financial crimes, which means that if the sentenced person doesn't commit another crime in a couple years, their sentence gets demoted to life sentence. Actual execution has only been used for extreme cases, such as Sichuan mining tycoon Liu Han, worth $6.4 billion, for his crime syndicate of gambling, loan sharking, illicit arms trading, contract killing, and actual lethal shootings.^[https://time.com/3700907/liu-han-execution-china/]
2
amemorablename - 8mon
Thanks for the context on how China does it. As far as the rest of it goes, I'm in total agreement that the damage done by some of these people is extremely egregious. I am specifically disagreeing on the idea of fear as a tactic, especially as it relates to the death penalty, in a general principle way. There may be some contexts where it makes sense, but if we're talking about it in the abstract, it just comes off like the usual punitive philosophy on crime that is common in, for example, the US. Surely there is far more to it than fear of punishment that helps deter the capitalists in a place like China - that's kind of where my mind goes with it. I don't think fear is generally a healthy mechanism to be using against a populace and I'm doubtful that it does much as a deterrent, especially without negative side effects. But there is also the ideal and the conditions, and sometimes the conditions demand things that are not the ideal to get through. So that's where I try to emphasize that I'm talking about the idea of it, not trying to judge how existing socialist projects do things, especially without understanding why.
1
Anomalocaris @lemm.ee - 8mon
Found Luigi's account. hi
6
cfgaussian - 8mon
There should be substantial financial and social help given to families that want to have children, and they should get more help the more children they have.
(But to balance that out with a left wing policy, i also want free contraception for everyone who doesn't want children.)
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Comprehensive49 - 8mon
Definitely. I hope China will be the first country to find a good solution to the birth crisis faced by all developed countries, since no capitalist country has found a solution yet. Reducing working hours, providing social support, increasing household wealth and living standards, and decreasing stress from raising kids should hopefully fix this.
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An_ominous_mist - 8mon
this 100%. We had a kid during the lock downs our government was paying everyone to stay inside. me and my partner got to stay in and focus on being parents, taking our time and doing a much better job then if we had to worry about making rent and feeding us on minimum wage.
7
cayde6ml - 8mon
What was that time like?
2
An_ominous_mist - 8mon
it was really great for the most part. the covid lock down part kinda sucked but the rest was great and it really shifted my perspective on a lot of things. the main one being having a kid isn't actually the hard part about having a kid, capitalism is the hard part of having a kid, we just got to focus on what's important instead of making money to keep us alive.
1
cayde6ml - 8mon
That's beautifully put, genuinely.
I get the sense that despite all the hardship, was there a sense of camaraderie, unity, and love and togetherness and stuff, among your family and Chinese people in general?
1
Boomkop3 - 8mon
Aren't those both left?
7
yet_another_commie - 8mon
Market reforms of Deng were amazing
24
AmarkuntheGatherer - 8mon
I hope you won't mind my ultra moment here. I think while the results speak for themselves, he got lucky.
Even in retrospect, Deng Xiaoping seems to be the rightmost someone can be and still reasonably be considered a communist. Looking at some of his unimplemented ideas and the policies that were reversed in the following decades, it's understandable why someone would think he was a capitalist roader in his time. The path he set the CPC on meant that the party had to walk a difficult tightrope, fooling the westerners by obfuscating their long-term plans while keeping the creeping liberalism at check. Whole the capacity of her administrators and will of her people played the main part, China couldn't have made it to today without fortune by their side.
Tldr I agree but only with hindsight
19
PolandIsAStateOfMind - 8mon
I think while the results speak for themselves, he got lucky.
It was a leap of faith and incredible trust in the future generations. If that went as market reforms did elswhere we would be now cursing him as second Gorbachev (or Gorbachev as second Deng). And the world could be as well completely doomed with no socialist China.
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amemorablename - 8mon
I don't think this is an ultra moment, so much as leaving out dialectics. Luck always factors into things, yeah, but the results speak for themselves because communist theory and practice works, and socialist projects continuously show this. The way they went about it could have gone wrong in a number of ways, sure, but so can working toward a revolution, so can the start of a revolution, so can the day to day mundanity of organizing a local party meeting, etc. It's how you use the dialectical process to adapt to the shifting circumstances and predict outcomes that makes the difference. And of course the people themselves, the struggle they put into it every step of the way. But point being, Deng and whoever all agreed with his path were picking a path and trying it, and in some ways it worked and some ways it didn't, and they have adjusted since. It's that adjusting that is so pivotal.
Or to put it another way, while luck is always a factor in things, analysis can usually reveal that there's less luck than it might seem at a glance and sometimes it's a matter of how deep you get into the factors in play. Casinos play on this all the time by having the appearance of handing over outcomes to luck, but in reality, being heavily weighted toward the "house winning."
7
mathemachristian [he/him] - 8mon
isnt that true all the time though? i remember reading in john reeds book that what made the soldiers finally break for the october revolution was kerenski demanding and not asking. Up until then a lot were undecided and the revolution might have failed because the ones that were decided were stronger on kerenskis side? so much in life is up to chance that the best you can do is hedge your bets
4
CrookedSerpent [she/her] - 8mon
Reading these comments got me like "🙂"
20
Boomkop3 - 8mon
Public smoking should be banned. And I'm not sure why so many people insist that they have a right to pollute everyone else's air. Especially when asthma is not an uncommom condition.
And kids are being hurt just by this drug abuse being on public display almost everywhere
20
sushimvt - 8mon
Comrades need to look presentable and dress normally when they are representing Marxism in a public form. Part of being a communist is appealing to everyday people. There is a reason why every successful communist movement, from the Panthers to the Bolsheviks, presented themselves well and professionally.
This isn't even really right-wing.
19
nugs [Comrade/Them] - 8mon
Yes. Optics means something to many people, and respecting that will help the movement
2
propter_hog [any, any] - 8mon
Not so much of a "view" as it is an action, but I unironically love buying army surplus stuff.
16
小莱卡 - 8mon
reform through forced labour is good, tho there is a clear distinction when it's on a capitalist country and private individuals profit of the prisoners labour to when the prisoner labour is used to develop the country, like gulags in the USSR.
16
201dberg - 8mon
I'm just gonna say it, many of these really don't feel like explicitly right wing ideals and more just "things that most people actually see are reasonable but like, wouldn't be ok in a futuristic Star Trek level utopia," but are things that many people will agree upon makes sense given the current material and social conditions of society.
14
Large Bullfrog - 8mon
And that's a good thing thankfully, it would be pretty alarming if there were.
6
Matty Roses - 8mon
Gambling should be illegal
14
cimbazarov - 8mon
Not sure if this counts as right wing, but I sympathize with some of Dostoevsky's philosophy. If we look at how fascism triumphed over socialism, there was an irrational and emotional component to it that drew people in, which in some ways socialism fails to do because it's rooted in objectiveness. And I believe Dostoevsky touches on this in his works where he has characters that are disillusioned with society but also disillusioned with the revolutionary movement, because it all boils down to objectiveness. I believe he is a reactionary, but also in real life he was part of revolutionary movements so he has real lived experience of what it's like to try to change society, which I find interesting.
That being said I do think socialism can have a subjective appeal to the masses, in that it aims to ensure prosperity and liberation for all.
13
Cysio - 8mon
Maybe there should be limits to kids being on social media and on the internet
12
comfy - 8mon
Honestly, many of these posts aren't even "right-wing" views, they're just shared positions like "guns are empowering to civilians", "have some respect for cultures you're entering and learn to communicate", "people raising a child should be supported", "child abusers should be removed from society".
The framing of some of these as "right-wing" or "anti-left" due to progressivist liberals is harmful and something we have to punch through. In my union, I had to put on a nice face and discuss with a member who only knew how to frame their legitimate proletarian objections to offshoring and porky's cost-cutting through terms like "woke nonsense", "diversity" and the like. And it sucks for them too, because their unfortunate, inaccurate choice of words lumps them in with absolute scum, and so they have to justify every other sentence with a good ol' "I'm not a racist" to try and clarify their objection (which, in this case, based on their other views and talking to them further, I really think was true and not just the classic shield tactic that Nazi scum abuse to feign humanity). When progressive liberals have garbage analysis and advocate idealist misguided solutions, that alienates reasonable people who might end up believing themselves to be "anti-left", given the Overton window puts proglibs in the "left" here.
I can only imagine if they talked to someone else who took their language at face value and then (understandably) dismissed them as an anti-worker pro-bigotry bastard etc. etc., instead of realizing it's just (for lack of a more neutral word) ignorance. Their legitimate proletarian concerns would be answered with dismissal or an attack. That's why we need to say loudly and clearly that we have shared proletarian values, not just "leftist" values.
(daily reminder that "left-right" is a nonsense subjective category anyway)
12
amemorablename - 8mon
(daily reminder that “left-right” is a nonsense subjective category anyway)
I'm not convinced it's nonsense as a whole, but there is a lot of confusion surrounding it. Especially in situations like US electoral "republican-democrat" dichotomy, where people sometimes label republican as right and democrat as left, which is indeed nonsense. I think it's kinda like "fascism" where there is historical meaning and then there is how it gets bandied about, and there's a lot of muddied use of it.
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An_ominous_mist - 8mon
Well said. This really gets to the heart of it.
I forget where I heard this quote but "the culture war is a proxy class war" is something I feel has a lot of truth to it.
4
comfy - 8mon
Great phrase, I'll have to remember that one! And that's absolutely at play here from the "progressive" liberalist side too - I suspect a significant chunk of the frustration with "DEI" and "woke" is due to the capitalist abuse the underlying progressive movements, comparable to rainbow capitalism. Offshoring (I originally miswrote that as "outsourcing" before you replied) to cheap underqualified labor is justified as "diversity", but local workers suffer because the capitalist is hiring people who aren't doing the job as well. The capitalist is justifying their anti-worker exploitation as being social justice! So for people who are brought up in a casually racist environment [read: most citizens here] and just not used to thinking about how they say things, they can thoughtlessly say something that's easily misinterpreted as racist bigotry. Consider: "They keep giving our jobs to Indians who can't do it as well" - it absolutely comes off as racist (or nationalist) to me, but could also just be someone who seriously doesn't care about whether they're from India or a different race, they're objecting to the outsourcing which just happens to currently be to India. Thoughlessness, which leads them to have to justify with defenses: "I'm not a racist, the Indian coworkers over here are wonderful, I have an Asian wife", you get the idea. Again, I know those lines are also abused by dissonant racists, but we would be foolish to just assume.
The person I was talking about before had earlier complained that they were also getting in trouble at work for being direct and blunt, rather than diplomatic and polite, like if someone was talking loudly on their phone while others are trying to work, or they didn't put enough greetings and sugar in their email and someone got offended. And they mentioned that it wasn't easy for them to adjust, because they'd been conditioned in certain engineering and military [fuck the troops] jobs where you don't have time to formulate and beat about the bush or worry about politics, direct and timely communication matters, and I suspect that leads them toward this thoughtless unfortunate phrasing, forcing them to backtrack with those defenses; "they can't say anything anymore". And, yes, again, that's the same line we also see used by pieces of crap who want to say racist garbage. It's all so tiresome!
4
An_ominous_mist - 8mon
yeah definitely. I think a those of us who have beliefs we've taken the time to think through choose our words carefully, we assume others do the same. in reality most working people haven't, they just regurgitate things they've heard on TV, Facebook and other corporate platforms. the silver lining is that our ideas are not as unpopular as they might appear. you really don't know until you find a common language with someone what you really disagree on.
4
fire86743 - 8mon
It is either:
Pornography should be illegal
or the Axis of Resistance should be supported.
11
Marat - 8mon
Ngl I'm not sure so I'll name a few.
1.Im very pro-natalist. I think, under well and stable circumstances (so not china during the one china policy) people should be encouraged to have children and preferably 2 or more. Obviously there should be provisions for this to make sure it doesn't turn criminal or get out of hand, but I think having a large and fresh young generation is very good for preventing lapses into unproductivity and conservativism. (However, abortion and such shouldn't be criminalized, Obviously)
2.I kinda like Theodore Roosevelt, at least on a personal level. I know I know imperialist warmonger, you don't have to remind me. But as a physically deficient near sighted kid, he really inspired me to both be more active and more curious about the world. It was kinda a never meet your heros thing, but I still have a soft spot for him
3.Up to a reasonable point, you should obey authority with little question (in day to day activity). Obviously it shouldn't be unquestionable or unqualified (not even Confusious thought that authority should be completely unquestioned), but I always feel like getting person x the y they ask for without question makes things a lot smoother than constantly butting in, trying to wield authority ypu don't have. I'm also a much larger fan of consistency rather than pure benefit (i.e, if one mathematics professor has a different system for notation than the rest of the field, even if that notation is better I woukd rather just be taught the consistent notation). [Side note:this makes me hate capitalism even more. Like how are you so bad that the person who bows so easily doesn't even believe in you?]
11
201dberg - 8mon
This is one of the few truly right wing comments that's truly right wing enough to furrow my brow. Have an up vote on your way to the gulag comrade.
7
rainpizza - 8mon
I have the same view as you about the first one. It feels nice not being lonely! High five!
We should attempt to get rid of alcohol and drugs in society. That’s not say immediate criminalization but we should go after producers of these ills and work to eliminate them through gradual, supportive-of-addicts means entirely.
10
darkcalling - 8mon
I partially agree, I think drugs should be outlawed and/or limited. I'm not against people in certain mental health situations being given ayahuasca or similar drugs with potential therapeutic effects but I don't think people should be able to buy heroin at the corner store for regular recreational use and that there should be allowed this drug culture (420, etc) around it.
I think ceremonially people should be allowed reasonable limited amounts of certain substances like alcohol (and weed) in state regulated amounts (like tied to a state ID card) like a bottle of wine for new years and a few other holidays and a bottle of whiskey a year but not like 2 bottles of whiskey and a case of beer a week type consumption. Not you know spending every other day high out of your mind on weed for hours at a time. I think what weed that is available recreationally should be weakened back to mid 20th century levels of THC and no one under 24 should be allowed access to it given the potential dangers to developing brains. As smoke is a carcinogen by itself consumption in that form should be discouraged for those who wish to use it, those who require it be done that way for traditional ceremonial/cultural reasons can still do so but most should be encouraged to bake it into foods or imbibe in some other manner that reduces the harm.
I understand why under capitalism people drink heavily or do lots of drugs, how miserable life can be, how hard labor conditions are so I'm not in favor of harsh restrictions on alcohol/weed under capitalism (though I'm also not in favor of legalization of more hard drugs which would be used to harm the proletariat, drug people into a sense of uncaring acceptance, exploit people to addict them to a product for profit, etc).
I think it's a definite harm and people don't understand that say the type of weed that Stalin smoked was like a hundred times weaker than the stuff you can buy in a shop today. Back in Stalin's day weed was a mild relaxant really compared to what it is today.
5
Dengalicious - 8mon
Even if marijuana could be more mild, it still impairs driving. There is absolutely no reason for recreational marijuana to be legal and I think that attempts to take down these dealers is important since they kill people through impaired driving. I think it needs to be dealt with through long term social reform, elimination of poverty, arrests and destructing of the dealers, and education.
-1
lorty - 8mon
Agreed, but there's a lot of places where being a leftist = liking weed and people really think letting recreational drugs go loose is some benefit to society.
2
June - 8mon
trans ppl should form an ethnostate in great britain and expel, enslave, and/or exterminate the cis population. all the property of the cis inhabitants should be confiscated without exception and distributed among the worthy members of the Party as well as soldiers who have been accorded honours for bravery
10
ghost_of_faso3 - 8mon
I thought this was the thread for right wing views???
10
SlayGuevara - 8mon
This is the future Labor wants
9
nugs [Comrade/Them] - 8mon
I seriously struggle to comprehend why anybody would want to step foot in that godless isle.
And to bounce off your idea, all Lesbians must live on the island of Lesbos! It is the natural order! xD
2
June - 8mon
Bc it's our land. Trans people have been living in Great Britain for 900,000 years. Even many transphobes will acknowledge that "transgenderism" originated in the West. The cisoid population of Great Britain are not British at all but Roman, Norman, and Saxon settler colonists who stole the land from its original inhabitants
1
Xavienth - 8mon
I believe in the death penalty as a security measure, but not as punishment, at least in theory.
In practice, the cost to society to ensure absolute certainty in guilt almost always far outweighs the security gain, so it doesn't make sense. Maybe once a century.
8
An_ominous_mist - 8mon
as far as the western political spectrum is concerned, I would say a strong belief that you should maintain a close relationships with family even if they hold beliefs that are reactionary or culturally conservative as long as they aren't overtly hurting you. it's better to create a synthesis of your ideas in the context of your relationship with them then to hold a hard line about something neither of you are acting on.
isolation is one of the main things that leads to the type of derangement you see in the modern western fascist movements. obviously there is lots of nuance to this but generally speaking
8
aelixnt - 8mon
This is essentially saying that the western patriarchal family unit is a force against fascism. If that were the case, then fascists would be against "the family", but exactly the opposite is true. You also more or less directly say that compromising with reactionaries will somehow make people less fascist, which is ridiculous. Someone who's estranged from their family specifically because they're reactionary isn't going to somehow become more fascist as a result of that, that doesn't make any sense. A deranged ultra or something, perhaps, but that's not the same thing.
I get that this is a thread about your most right-wing opinion, but yeah, this idea is reactionary as hell and trying to clumsily graft on an argument about isolation doesn't make it any better. Isolation is deranging and that is a societal problem, but this idea is absolutely not a solution to that. If anything it's a description of the problem - yes, a society where community and public spaces have been destroyed makes for a situation where this "family or isolation" dichotomy exists, and that can lead to derangement and ultimately fascism. The solution to this problem is to fix that situation, not decide that it's a good thing.
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An_ominous_mist - 8mon
I think you're completely misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not making a "thing good" or "thing bad" argument.
Like I'm not saying "the family as it has been constructed under capitalism is as force for good and should be protected at all costs"
it’s better to create a synthesis of your ideas in the context of your relationship with them then to hold a hard line about something neither of you are acting on
what I'm specifically talking about is in a context that is totally removed from any real political action, which is most conversations with my reactionary family members. at least in my context they aren't materially opposing me in any real way, they just saw some shit on facebook and are vomiting it me. what I mean by find a synthesis is not find the direct center point between my opinion and theirs(my opinion being based in reality and theirs not) but instead find an aesthetic compromise that is grounded firmly in your beliefs. the thing about peoples insane right-wing delusions is most of the time its not grounded in anything other then rhetoric, at least here in north America.
(sorry if I didn't use the quote function right, I'm very new to lemmy)
4
aelixnt - 8mon
instead find an aesthetic compromise that is grounded firmly in your beliefs
What is an "aesthetic compromise" in this context? Do you have an example?
It sounds like you're just doing "tolerate people's insane right-wing delusions and be civil above all else, never imposing negative social consequences for people spreading fascist beliefs" but obscured with lots of fancy words.
Propaganda has a very real effect on material circumstances anyway. To suggest otherwise in 2025 is wild.
1
An_ominous_mist - 8mon
What is an “aesthetic compromise” in this context? Do you have an example?
sure, I'll use a personal example. I was talking with a relative of mine who hates rich people but loves elon musk because he owns the libs or whatever. instead of beginning the interaction by disagreeing about elon musk being a super cool guy who's smart and awesome, I started the conversation from the perspective of agreeing with her about how much the rich suck and libs suck and yada-yada-yada but the place it ended at was that elon also sucks and that they should value less the performative aspect of our modern political climate more the substantive.
so not an aesthetic compromise in the scene of a middle ground between aesthetics but the aesthetic of compromise itself.
basically what I'm saying is just chill the fuck out and talk to people who you have a long relationship with instead of cutting them out in some sort of purity testing way.
tolerate people’s insane right-wing delusions and be civil above all else, never imposing negative social consequences for people spreading fascist beliefs
that's not at ALL what I'm saying. I'm saying challenge those beliefs in a way the is effective. thinking about social interactions in a punishment/reward way isn't very effective in my experience.
Also some family systems are much worse then others and some ARE in fact good and something to be protected, specifically indigenous family systems should be protected as they are to a large extent inherently anti-colonial/anti-imperialist.
sorry if this still doesn't make scene I'm not really used to having a conversation in this format so I might not be representing my point of view in the best way. please try to be charitable when interpreting what I'm saying.
1
aelixnt - 8mon
I see. That's good propaganda strategy, and I agree that cutting people who have potential out in "some sort of purity testing way" is bad. That's the sort of thing insufferable shitlibs do and is a big reason why people all across the political spectrum despise them so much.
... although the "who have potential" part there is important. Fascists, famously, don't care about the norms of polite conversation or the marketplace of ideas or any of that, debating with them only legitimizes their ideas and is a serious mistake. The modern-day full-blown MAGA chud is the same way, even though they may not be a self-aware fascist. Unfortunately, many of our families are full of these people. They don't respect this nuanced discussion and compromise stuff at all. Quite the opposite, they think it's weak and gay or whatever and will use it as a weapon against you. These are people who literally don't respect facts or material reality itself.
Your relative, for example, hates rich people. Assuming this is actually true (a sort of faux-populist hatred of "elites" is an integral part of far-right propaganda and doesn't count), that's already much more potential then some of the absolutely hopeless bootlicking trash that many of us have to deal with. Even so, you said earlier (and I agree) that if something is never going to make any material difference, then it's pointless, so... have you convinced this relative to significantly change their political alignment? Did you get them to stop prioritizing triggering the libs (i.e., bigotry), over everything else? If not, then nothing was achieved, because that's the main mechanism that the fascists use to mobilize the right.
Sometimes, open hostility, ostracism, and other things that aren't nice are actually the most effective strategy. I've spent plenty of time doing exactly what you suggest, and in retrospect, in most cases I should have simply told them to go fuck themselves and seriously rethink their entire world view if they ever want to talk to me again. Personal consequences are the only thing that these people understand.
1
SmallBear - 8mon
In a functioning post-capitslist society, people should be expected to work if they are reasonably able. (I'm not sure if this is really even right wing but I know a lot of people who would say that it is).
7
Dengalicious - 8mon
Lenin said that he who does not work shall also not eat
3
Orcinus - 8mon
You're right, this isn't right-wing, guaranteed employment is in socialist constitutions. The more of us working, the less we'll individually have to. Contrast with, say, nazi Germany where they had relatively few people working many hours.
3
Large Bullfrog - 8mon
I don't want no gubbermint taking my guns.
5
sushimvt - 8mon
Not even right wing, Marx said this shit
9
Collatz_problem [comrade/them] - 8mon
Compulsory military service is extremely important for actual democracy.
5
ghost_of_faso3 - 8mon
Depends, if its compulsory military service but its for a neo-liberal country id rather just shoot my commanding officer at that point lmao
32
Collatz_problem [comrade/them] - 8mon
I call it voting by bullet box.
6
Dengalicious - 8mon
This isn’t right wing, it just doesn’t make sense in many contexts. Time in the military is time that could be spent in education or other socially beneficial activities
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Collatz_problem [comrade/them] - 8mon
The professional army is a cancer and the power to inflict organized violence should be spread out as evenly as possible. Also the military should allocate some of its time for infrastructure work and maybe other community services like DPRK does.
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Dengalicious - 8mon
That still doesn’t make sense. A professional military is specifically trained for the purposes they are needed for and time spent in the military is time (for most people) that would otherwise be spent in training to become other needed jobs like doctors, engineers, teachers etc etc
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Collatz_problem [comrade/them] - 8mon
The hierarchical structure of professional military encourages right-wing ideology and caste thinking. You can only somewhat counteract it with political education, so you need to limit the number of full-time military professionals to limit the spread of right-wing ideology. And you can't get rid of military without full worldwide victory for the socialism first.
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Dengalicious - 8mon
That still takes away time that would be spent in training for socially useful and productive purposes. Maybe for those not going to college, mandatory military time could work but otherwise it would harm those other professions.
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Collatz_problem [comrade/them] - 8mon
Making sure your military is not full of wannabe caudillos is a socially useful purpose. And those who are going to college should serve too in positions requiring technical knowledge or as officers.
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Dengalicious - 8mon
That’s nonsensical. The top in the military are still going to be career soldiers either way. The officers aren’t going to be those forced to serve a single term. Your idea would just lead to a huge deficit of education and would only serve to empower reactionaries
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Boomkop3 - 8mon
That is, if the military isn't a shit show for anything but arms training and physical conditioning
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Sleepless One - 8mon
For me, it's stuff that I consciously realize is wrong but unconsciously and irrationally still believe in to some extent.
I still believe in personal responsibility bootstrapping to an unreasonable degree. For example, I see obesity and drug use as personal moral failings that are wholly on the individual, and only the individual, to rectify -- for myself anyway. I don't wield it as a cudgel against others at least. Come to think of it, I think I mostly believe in this solely so I can be hard on myself.
I also for some reason vacillate between reactionary Dawkins style anti-theism (extreme to the point where I'm convinced I'd crucify Jesus again if I ever met him) and being convinced that religiosity and spirituality are prerequisites to being a good person and that my inability to convince myself that god is real means I'm an ontologically evil subhuman.
Also also I find it hard to resist my hard-wired programming to be a knee-jerk western chauvinist. A lot of my "unlimited genocide on the first world" style posting is partly to counteract this tendency within me with an opposite extreme. I guess growing up during the war on terror and never coming across opinions like "maybe all those people our government is bombing are human beings actually" until I'm an adult will do that to a person.
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SlayGuevara - 8mon
I still believe in personal responsibility bootstrapping to an unreasonable degree.
Same, and that's coming from someone who has been in the gutter himself. But I think that me getting out of it on my own causes thoughts like that because I also realize that systemic oppression and liberalism and whatnot play a huge part in keeping people down, so much so that bootstrapping alone isn't helping that.
I managed to get out of my shit due to 1) a lot of discipline and character and 2) let's not kid myself, privilege. And I see so many people stuck in the shit at my job and I think to myself: man, if only you'd do this or that and things might improve. But that's arrogant on my behalf, really. Like I know it all.
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big_spoon - 8mon
maybe that being a communist doesn't require to be a militant atheist. Atheism is a method for some people to avoid reactionary traps that usually come with religion
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SlayGuevara - 8mon
Out party consists of many religions and (so far) no problem has occurred. Not between the Muslims and the Christians, or even Muslims and LGBTQ+ community like so many libs like to go on about. Nothing. It can absolutely work when working towards socialism.
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Dengalicious - 8mon
To be a communist is to be a materialist. You cannot separate the two of them
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NewOldGuard [he/him, they/them] - 8mon
I agree, I think a materialist perspective in the realm of political thought is key, but as for people’s personal lives they can believe what they wish about the nature of the universe outside of that. So long as the org is secular and people are applying a materialist philosophy in their analysis of the natural world here then it’s completely compatible
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OhHiMarx - 8mon
It doesn't necessarily require it, sure. But people are frequently presented with issues which have a materialist solution that conflicts with directly with their religious idealism. It happens all the time and when that's combined with the threat of eternal punishment for doing the "wrong" thing, the idealism usually wins to the detriment of everyone.
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KrupskayaPraxis - 8mon
I'm somewhat of an anti-natalist. I don't think it's necessarily smart to have children, only if you really want to but even then not too many.
I think there are too many rules when it comes to things like alcohol and cigarettes because I think it is the responsibility of the person itself and not the government. But fuck cigarette and alcohol advertising though
Lastly I don't like it when people are too affectionate in public and think they should keep it to themselves
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An_ominous_mist - 8mon
100% on that last point LMAO, not the rest though
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nugs [Comrade/Them] - 8mon
OK let's meet halfway, state sponsored translucent kissing booth?!
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-6-6-6- - 8mon
Agreed besides for the last point. I don't mind holding hands and kisses on benches. I can see your point if you mean making out or further intimacy.
Every person I know with a child does not regret having them. However, from an outside perspective, every person I know with a child has had to eat some form of major shit because of the fact they had a responsibility for that child. You are easier to control with a child. That is a simple fact.
Either or not that is worth having a child in this current system is up to you and I don't think anyone should be limited from having a child.
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deathtoreddit - 8mon
Idk if it's most but "Richmond is a hard road to travel" is a good tune.
Based on all the discourse recently, my position that AI and LLMs should be outlawed.
I am an unapologetic Butlerian Jihadist
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cayde6ml - 8mon
I understand the sentiment in your view, but I politely implore you to think of all the people and scientific advancement that A.I. is already helping.
There have been numerous cases of researchers using A.I., and the A.I. discovers numerous treatments for many types of diseases/illnesses, like types of cancer.
Or the A.I. come sup with new types of steel and building materials, that actually work.
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footfaults - 8mon
I have a background in virtual screening software, where we just brute forced every compound that was commercially viable to produce (ZINC database) to see if it would bind to a cell receptor.
Having a new way to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks does not impress me.
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Comprehensive49 - 8mon
But better AI should be able to pick stickier shits, which will save work in the long run.
I agree that AI should not be used to hurt workers, but will be very important for fully automated luxury communism.
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footfaults - 8mon
We are so far from automated luxury communism, and the idea that this technology would actually move us closer, is laughable. I honestly don't believe that any technology has actually moved us closer to Communism. They seem to actually just concentrate more and more power in fewer and fewer hands.
Look if you want your fun little tech fetish, go right ahead, but don't claim that LLMs are making the world better.
I watched the "Computer Revolution" and how it was going to fix EVERYTHING. It was going to transform the world.
All it did was just make a couple thousand people, more rich than was possible before.
All we are going to see is this buggy, hallucinating, flawed God take over everything, and like a mad God, it will make incomprehensible demands and pronouncements, and we'll all be forced to obey them, while a handful of billionaires cook the planet and extract all the value, then we all die.
It's the stupidest fucking outcome, and every person who keeps being a booster for LLMs and masks their little freakish obsession with them with flowerly marxist language makes me sick.
"actually it's good that artists, programmers, and writers are being proletarianized, replaced with a shitty hallucinatin LLM that can't actually do the work, but can bullshit it enough that management thinks they can layoff everyone and just pocket the savings"
Jesus Christ.
"Yes but we need the LLMs to destroy everyone's livelihoods so that we can have our secular version of a Rapture (violent revolution where a bunch of people who never fucking shoot guns (the SRA is a joke) win against a superior force) and finally achieve fully automated luxury Communism"
Completely delusional
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Comprehensive49 - 8mon
When the heck did I say that LLMs are going to run society? AI is much more than just LLMs, though LLMs are the manifestation of the current stage of development of AI.
Companies like Walmart are already using automated systems to optimize product distribution and maximize profit.^[https://www.versobooks.com/products/636-the-people-s-republic-of-walmart] There is no reason why we can't use improved versions of these AI systems to centrally plan country-wide economics in the future to maximize well-being and other democratically-defined goals.
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cayde6ml - 8mon
While I strongly believe in rehabilitation, I think that convicted pedophiles/rapists should be put down. I'm not sure if I want would it to be the case for every single one, but it should be on the table.
I think that everyone should have the right to own a gun for self-defense purposes. At least, ideally.
I guess in a vacuum, I can understand that proper documentation could be required in order to vote. But only in a socialist society, and only when the state guarantees everyone can access their own documents freely and like candy.
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Dengalicious - 8mon
How do you handle false convictions? They are obviously very rare but doesn’t it seem like executions should be avoided considering that they do in fact occur.
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albigu - 8mon
Definitely not my most rightwing view, but my most rightwing conscious position is that comrades should join and build up whatever organisations they can, even if they are right-deviationists or contain reactionary elements, and fight over those inside the organisations. This includes parties with settler, LGBT-phobic, misogynous among other deviations.
I also have another view that may be seen as rightwing here (and is definitely controversial) that settler-colonialism is not the principal contradiction in current day USA, North America, or most of the rest of the Americas. It's first between the international bourgeoisie (with home base in the US) and the international proletariat, then between peripheral nations and the imperial core finance, military and cultural sectors, and only after that it's between oppressed minorities (be they native or "imported") and the national state repression force. Some day I'll take the time for this struggle session.
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Fatur_New - 8mon
Rothbard has awesome smile
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ptc075 @lemmy.zip - 8mon
I think the government should have a balanced budget.
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Redderthanmisty - 8mon
I'm not sure this would end up counting as a right wing view because of the reason behind the viewpoint, But many of my liberal associates a oppose my views on this subject, and many of my conservative associates agree, even if for the wrong reasons, so I may as well say my piece.
Prostitution and sex work in general, while it shouldn't be outright banned, as that would very quickly lead to a super exploitative black market, is generally a bad thing and should atleast be extremely heavily regulated, to the point where it ideally whithers away.
The reason for this is that I don't believe consent can really ever exist where coercion is present. Alongside this, where sexual activity occurs without the presence of consent, we call this rape. To my understanding, this is the same reasoning why we don't consider child sexual abuse victims to have consented regardless of whether they said yes to the activity, specifically because of the problem around coercion.
As Marxists, we generally understand that, when you perform labour in return for income, if you end up relying on that income to survive, as most of us do as proletarians, that opens you up to economic coercion, as if you want to stop performing the labour you're paid to do, you face losing that income and risk losing vital means of survival such as your healthcare, your home, access to food, and more. This risk often coerces us into continuing to perform labour we aren't satisfied with.
Now when it comes to prostitution, that equation moves from having to manufacture something or enter data to a spreadsheet or risk sleeping on the streets all the way to placing yourself in a particularly vulnerable position and carry out whatever sexual activity or risk starvation.
Now I do get some people just do it for fun, and when that's the case, I couldn't care less if you just go to a swingers club instead. But when there's a transaction involved, that can all too easily become coercion, and thus, at least in my book, rape.
Now admittedly, I haven't spoken to many sex workers, so I may be completely wrong in my assumptions about how this industry works. But I do believe if any regulation gets drafted in regards to the sex industry, it must interview a wide range of sex workers and make extensive efforts to address their concerns along with offering upskilling opportunities and pathways into other careers ready and open for anyone who wants to.
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lorty - 8mon
I do not believe any serious future society will allow completely anonymous internet for its users. There's just too much harm that comes from being able to say and do whatever without your person being associated with it.
Red5 in asklemmygrad
What is your single most right-wing view?
That if you move to another country you should be learning that language to the best of your capabilities. I work with a lot of foreigners and the amount of them that are incapable or simply unwilling to speak, in my case, Dutch is insanely high. I do think we as a society should invest more in schooling and developing both the native and the new language of course. But learn the fucking language. At least try.
a) languages are hard. but immersion helps
b) I think the vast majority if expats won't even consider learning the local language.
Languages is hard that's true. An initiative our party took is the 'festival of the mother tongue' in which many different nationalities can showcase their language and local cuisine and whatnot. Really helps people think about language.
Also, it turns out that further developing your native language can also help with learning a new language. Hence why I think it's important to stimulate that as well though reading and stuff.
also the question is if there are programs to help people learn the local language, rather then demonising them for struggling
Ok but it's Dutch, I understand the hesitation https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/2a7ddb05-9541-4759-aedd-0d7fb311aa51.png
Everybody ganster until they have to pronounce arbeidsongeschiktheidsverzekering
In my top 3 most ridiculous languages for sure, can't keep a straight face listening to those people, lol.
I agree, especially for those American expats
As a global south citizen, I don't care a single iota about domestic/social cultural policies of western politicians or parties, and would be glad to see a socially conservative movement take power there if it meant an end to Genocide, War, and economic exploitation in my part of the world. I guess it is some form of critical support, same reason I support Iran and Russia in their resistance to Imperialism despite their less than ideal social stances.
Death penalty is good actually, as long as it isn't used just on minorities. Super useful to scare capitalists.
Death penalty, but only for the bourgeoisie and for politicians who betray the proletariat
And child pr3dators
Oh fuck yes, no list for them, just straight to the guillotine after sentencing
And for supporters of death penalty
I don't think fear is a good reason to be using the death penalty. Tho tbf, considering the topic question, it does sound pretty right-wing to be wanting to use fear as a tactic to control people.
i know deterrence doesn't work for regular crime but maybe it does for white-collar crimes that are premeditated conspiracies and continuously reaffirmed by the perpetrators?
I mean, I'm not against state intervention in suppressing the capitalist class during the transition to where class doesn't exist. That's an important thing. I'm not even opposed to China's handling of corruption, which sometimes involves death sentence as far as I know - I don't know what reasoning they're operating from and why they think that makes sense for them, so it wouldn't make sense for me to weigh in on it.
But as a general principle concept of promoting death penalty to "scare" "bad people", I don't see how it would accomplish anything on that alone. If regular people commit crimes in spite of scary repression when they are desperate enough, capitalists and the like no doubt will some of the time too because the inertia of their class circumstances drive them toward financial crimes. And fearing getting caught may deter some people some of the time, but it doesn't address the inertia.
I can however think of at least one other reason more directly practical that a socialist state might go for death penalty for some financial crimes. Which is, in dealing with imperialism along with concerns about internal reactionaries, there's always the possibility that a corrupt figure who is influential enough / has strong enough ties can escape or get released later by some form of opposition and used further against the working class.
The difference is that capitalists aren't desperate. They commit crimes just to make numbers get bigger. Just fining corporations for doing crimes doesn't do anything, because then it just becomes a cost of doing business. You must attack the people in the corporations making the decisions to make money, and the death penalty is one of the tools for that.
To understand the use of the death penalty, imagine how many worker hours a capitalist who steals a billion dollars takes away. Assuming the average US salary (~$66,000) and working lifespan (77.43 years - 20 yr childhood), they've stolen the entire life earnings of 264 Americans. These calcs look even worse for any non-U.S. country because the theft is usually done in USD, but all the workers make a much less valuable currency.
As of now, China mostly uses death sentence with reprieve for financial crimes, which means that if the sentenced person doesn't commit another crime in a couple years, their sentence gets demoted to life sentence. Actual execution has only been used for extreme cases, such as Sichuan mining tycoon Liu Han, worth $6.4 billion, for his crime syndicate of gambling, loan sharking, illicit arms trading, contract killing, and actual lethal shootings.^[https://time.com/3700907/liu-han-execution-china/]
Thanks for the context on how China does it. As far as the rest of it goes, I'm in total agreement that the damage done by some of these people is extremely egregious. I am specifically disagreeing on the idea of fear as a tactic, especially as it relates to the death penalty, in a general principle way. There may be some contexts where it makes sense, but if we're talking about it in the abstract, it just comes off like the usual punitive philosophy on crime that is common in, for example, the US. Surely there is far more to it than fear of punishment that helps deter the capitalists in a place like China - that's kind of where my mind goes with it. I don't think fear is generally a healthy mechanism to be using against a populace and I'm doubtful that it does much as a deterrent, especially without negative side effects. But there is also the ideal and the conditions, and sometimes the conditions demand things that are not the ideal to get through. So that's where I try to emphasize that I'm talking about the idea of it, not trying to judge how existing socialist projects do things, especially without understanding why.
Found Luigi's account. hi
There should be substantial financial and social help given to families that want to have children, and they should get more help the more children they have.
(But to balance that out with a left wing policy, i also want free contraception for everyone who doesn't want children.)
Definitely. I hope China will be the first country to find a good solution to the birth crisis faced by all developed countries, since no capitalist country has found a solution yet. Reducing working hours, providing social support, increasing household wealth and living standards, and decreasing stress from raising kids should hopefully fix this.
this 100%. We had a kid during the lock downs our government was paying everyone to stay inside. me and my partner got to stay in and focus on being parents, taking our time and doing a much better job then if we had to worry about making rent and feeding us on minimum wage.
What was that time like?
it was really great for the most part. the covid lock down part kinda sucked but the rest was great and it really shifted my perspective on a lot of things. the main one being having a kid isn't actually the hard part about having a kid, capitalism is the hard part of having a kid, we just got to focus on what's important instead of making money to keep us alive.
That's beautifully put, genuinely.
I get the sense that despite all the hardship, was there a sense of camaraderie, unity, and love and togetherness and stuff, among your family and Chinese people in general?
Aren't those both left?
Market reforms of Deng were amazing
I hope you won't mind my ultra moment here. I think while the results speak for themselves, he got lucky.
Even in retrospect, Deng Xiaoping seems to be the rightmost someone can be and still reasonably be considered a communist. Looking at some of his unimplemented ideas and the policies that were reversed in the following decades, it's understandable why someone would think he was a capitalist roader in his time. The path he set the CPC on meant that the party had to walk a difficult tightrope, fooling the westerners by obfuscating their long-term plans while keeping the creeping liberalism at check. Whole the capacity of her administrators and will of her people played the main part, China couldn't have made it to today without fortune by their side.
Tldr I agree but only with hindsight
It was a leap of faith and incredible trust in the future generations. If that went as market reforms did elswhere we would be now cursing him as second Gorbachev (or Gorbachev as second Deng). And the world could be as well completely doomed with no socialist China.
I don't think this is an ultra moment, so much as leaving out dialectics. Luck always factors into things, yeah, but the results speak for themselves because communist theory and practice works, and socialist projects continuously show this. The way they went about it could have gone wrong in a number of ways, sure, but so can working toward a revolution, so can the start of a revolution, so can the day to day mundanity of organizing a local party meeting, etc. It's how you use the dialectical process to adapt to the shifting circumstances and predict outcomes that makes the difference. And of course the people themselves, the struggle they put into it every step of the way. But point being, Deng and whoever all agreed with his path were picking a path and trying it, and in some ways it worked and some ways it didn't, and they have adjusted since. It's that adjusting that is so pivotal.
Or to put it another way, while luck is always a factor in things, analysis can usually reveal that there's less luck than it might seem at a glance and sometimes it's a matter of how deep you get into the factors in play. Casinos play on this all the time by having the appearance of handing over outcomes to luck, but in reality, being heavily weighted toward the "house winning."
isnt that true all the time though? i remember reading in john reeds book that what made the soldiers finally break for the october revolution was kerenski demanding and not asking. Up until then a lot were undecided and the revolution might have failed because the ones that were decided were stronger on kerenskis side? so much in life is up to chance that the best you can do is hedge your bets
Reading these comments got me like "🙂"
Public smoking should be banned. And I'm not sure why so many people insist that they have a right to pollute everyone else's air. Especially when asthma is not an uncommom condition.
And kids are being hurt just by this drug abuse being on public display almost everywhere
Comrades need to look presentable and dress normally when they are representing Marxism in a public form. Part of being a communist is appealing to everyday people. There is a reason why every successful communist movement, from the Panthers to the Bolsheviks, presented themselves well and professionally.
This isn't even really right-wing.
Yes. Optics means something to many people, and respecting that will help the movement
Not so much of a "view" as it is an action, but I unironically love buying army surplus stuff.
reform through forced labour is good, tho there is a clear distinction when it's on a capitalist country and private individuals profit of the prisoners labour to when the prisoner labour is used to develop the country, like gulags in the USSR.
I'm just gonna say it, many of these really don't feel like explicitly right wing ideals and more just "things that most people actually see are reasonable but like, wouldn't be ok in a futuristic Star Trek level utopia," but are things that many people will agree upon makes sense given the current material and social conditions of society.
And that's a good thing thankfully, it would be pretty alarming if there were.
Gambling should be illegal
Not sure if this counts as right wing, but I sympathize with some of Dostoevsky's philosophy. If we look at how fascism triumphed over socialism, there was an irrational and emotional component to it that drew people in, which in some ways socialism fails to do because it's rooted in objectiveness. And I believe Dostoevsky touches on this in his works where he has characters that are disillusioned with society but also disillusioned with the revolutionary movement, because it all boils down to objectiveness. I believe he is a reactionary, but also in real life he was part of revolutionary movements so he has real lived experience of what it's like to try to change society, which I find interesting.
That being said I do think socialism can have a subjective appeal to the masses, in that it aims to ensure prosperity and liberation for all.
Maybe there should be limits to kids being on social media and on the internet
Honestly, many of these posts aren't even "right-wing" views, they're just shared positions like "guns are empowering to civilians", "have some respect for cultures you're entering and learn to communicate", "people raising a child should be supported", "child abusers should be removed from society".
The framing of some of these as "right-wing" or "anti-left" due to progressivist liberals is harmful and something we have to punch through. In my union, I had to put on a nice face and discuss with a member who only knew how to frame their legitimate proletarian objections to offshoring and porky's cost-cutting through terms like "woke nonsense", "diversity" and the like. And it sucks for them too, because their unfortunate, inaccurate choice of words lumps them in with absolute scum, and so they have to justify every other sentence with a good ol' "I'm not a racist" to try and clarify their objection (which, in this case, based on their other views and talking to them further, I really think was true and not just the classic shield tactic that Nazi scum abuse to feign humanity). When progressive liberals have garbage analysis and advocate idealist misguided solutions, that alienates reasonable people who might end up believing themselves to be "anti-left", given the Overton window puts proglibs in the "left" here.
I can only imagine if they talked to someone else who took their language at face value and then (understandably) dismissed them as an anti-worker pro-bigotry bastard etc. etc., instead of realizing it's just (for lack of a more neutral word) ignorance. Their legitimate proletarian concerns would be answered with dismissal or an attack. That's why we need to say loudly and clearly that we have shared proletarian values, not just "leftist" values.
(daily reminder that "left-right" is a nonsense subjective category anyway)
I'm not convinced it's nonsense as a whole, but there is a lot of confusion surrounding it. Especially in situations like US electoral "republican-democrat" dichotomy, where people sometimes label republican as right and democrat as left, which is indeed nonsense. I think it's kinda like "fascism" where there is historical meaning and then there is how it gets bandied about, and there's a lot of muddied use of it.
Well said. This really gets to the heart of it. I forget where I heard this quote but "the culture war is a proxy class war" is something I feel has a lot of truth to it.
Great phrase, I'll have to remember that one! And that's absolutely at play here from the "progressive" liberalist side too - I suspect a significant chunk of the frustration with "DEI" and "woke" is due to the capitalist abuse the underlying progressive movements, comparable to rainbow capitalism. Offshoring (I originally miswrote that as "outsourcing" before you replied) to cheap underqualified labor is justified as "diversity", but local workers suffer because the capitalist is hiring people who aren't doing the job as well. The capitalist is justifying their anti-worker exploitation as being social justice! So for people who are brought up in a casually racist environment [read: most citizens here] and just not used to thinking about how they say things, they can thoughtlessly say something that's easily misinterpreted as racist bigotry. Consider: "They keep giving our jobs to Indians who can't do it as well" - it absolutely comes off as racist (or nationalist) to me, but could also just be someone who seriously doesn't care about whether they're from India or a different race, they're objecting to the outsourcing which just happens to currently be to India. Thoughlessness, which leads them to have to justify with defenses: "I'm not a racist, the Indian coworkers over here are wonderful, I have an Asian wife", you get the idea. Again, I know those lines are also abused by dissonant racists, but we would be foolish to just assume.
The person I was talking about before had earlier complained that they were also getting in trouble at work for being direct and blunt, rather than diplomatic and polite, like if someone was talking loudly on their phone while others are trying to work, or they didn't put enough greetings and sugar in their email and someone got offended. And they mentioned that it wasn't easy for them to adjust, because they'd been conditioned in certain engineering and military [fuck the troops] jobs where you don't have time to formulate and beat about the bush or worry about politics, direct and timely communication matters, and I suspect that leads them toward this thoughtless unfortunate phrasing, forcing them to backtrack with those defenses; "they can't say anything anymore". And, yes, again, that's the same line we also see used by pieces of crap who want to say racist garbage. It's all so tiresome!
yeah definitely. I think a those of us who have beliefs we've taken the time to think through choose our words carefully, we assume others do the same. in reality most working people haven't, they just regurgitate things they've heard on TV, Facebook and other corporate platforms. the silver lining is that our ideas are not as unpopular as they might appear. you really don't know until you find a common language with someone what you really disagree on.
It is either:
Pornography should be illegal
or the Axis of Resistance should be supported.
Ngl I'm not sure so I'll name a few.
1.Im very pro-natalist. I think, under well and stable circumstances (so not china during the one china policy) people should be encouraged to have children and preferably 2 or more. Obviously there should be provisions for this to make sure it doesn't turn criminal or get out of hand, but I think having a large and fresh young generation is very good for preventing lapses into unproductivity and conservativism. (However, abortion and such shouldn't be criminalized, Obviously)
2.I kinda like Theodore Roosevelt, at least on a personal level. I know I know imperialist warmonger, you don't have to remind me. But as a physically deficient near sighted kid, he really inspired me to both be more active and more curious about the world. It was kinda a never meet your heros thing, but I still have a soft spot for him
3.Up to a reasonable point, you should obey authority with little question (in day to day activity). Obviously it shouldn't be unquestionable or unqualified (not even Confusious thought that authority should be completely unquestioned), but I always feel like getting person x the y they ask for without question makes things a lot smoother than constantly butting in, trying to wield authority ypu don't have. I'm also a much larger fan of consistency rather than pure benefit (i.e, if one mathematics professor has a different system for notation than the rest of the field, even if that notation is better I woukd rather just be taught the consistent notation). [Side note:this makes me hate capitalism even more. Like how are you so bad that the person who bows so easily doesn't even believe in you?]
This is one of the few truly right wing comments that's truly right wing enough to furrow my brow. Have an up vote on your way to the gulag comrade.
I have the same view as you about the first one. It feels nice not being lonely! High five!
https://img.freepik.com/premium-vector/high-five-hand_52422-25.jpg
We should attempt to get rid of alcohol and drugs in society. That’s not say immediate criminalization but we should go after producers of these ills and work to eliminate them through gradual, supportive-of-addicts means entirely.
I partially agree, I think drugs should be outlawed and/or limited. I'm not against people in certain mental health situations being given ayahuasca or similar drugs with potential therapeutic effects but I don't think people should be able to buy heroin at the corner store for regular recreational use and that there should be allowed this drug culture (420, etc) around it.
I think ceremonially people should be allowed reasonable limited amounts of certain substances like alcohol (and weed) in state regulated amounts (like tied to a state ID card) like a bottle of wine for new years and a few other holidays and a bottle of whiskey a year but not like 2 bottles of whiskey and a case of beer a week type consumption. Not you know spending every other day high out of your mind on weed for hours at a time. I think what weed that is available recreationally should be weakened back to mid 20th century levels of THC and no one under 24 should be allowed access to it given the potential dangers to developing brains. As smoke is a carcinogen by itself consumption in that form should be discouraged for those who wish to use it, those who require it be done that way for traditional ceremonial/cultural reasons can still do so but most should be encouraged to bake it into foods or imbibe in some other manner that reduces the harm.
I understand why under capitalism people drink heavily or do lots of drugs, how miserable life can be, how hard labor conditions are so I'm not in favor of harsh restrictions on alcohol/weed under capitalism (though I'm also not in favor of legalization of more hard drugs which would be used to harm the proletariat, drug people into a sense of uncaring acceptance, exploit people to addict them to a product for profit, etc).
I think it's a definite harm and people don't understand that say the type of weed that Stalin smoked was like a hundred times weaker than the stuff you can buy in a shop today. Back in Stalin's day weed was a mild relaxant really compared to what it is today.
Even if marijuana could be more mild, it still impairs driving. There is absolutely no reason for recreational marijuana to be legal and I think that attempts to take down these dealers is important since they kill people through impaired driving. I think it needs to be dealt with through long term social reform, elimination of poverty, arrests and destructing of the dealers, and education.
Agreed, but there's a lot of places where being a leftist = liking weed and people really think letting recreational drugs go loose is some benefit to society.
trans ppl should form an ethnostate in great britain and expel, enslave, and/or exterminate the cis population. all the property of the cis inhabitants should be confiscated without exception and distributed among the worthy members of the Party as well as soldiers who have been accorded honours for bravery
I thought this was the thread for right wing views???
This is the future Labor wants
I seriously struggle to comprehend why anybody would want to step foot in that godless isle. And to bounce off your idea, all Lesbians must live on the island of Lesbos! It is the natural order! xD
Bc it's our land. Trans people have been living in Great Britain for 900,000 years. Even many transphobes will acknowledge that "transgenderism" originated in the West. The cisoid population of Great Britain are not British at all but Roman, Norman, and Saxon settler colonists who stole the land from its original inhabitants
I believe in the death penalty as a security measure, but not as punishment, at least in theory.
In practice, the cost to society to ensure absolute certainty in guilt almost always far outweighs the security gain, so it doesn't make sense. Maybe once a century.
as far as the western political spectrum is concerned, I would say a strong belief that you should maintain a close relationships with family even if they hold beliefs that are reactionary or culturally conservative as long as they aren't overtly hurting you. it's better to create a synthesis of your ideas in the context of your relationship with them then to hold a hard line about something neither of you are acting on. isolation is one of the main things that leads to the type of derangement you see in the modern western fascist movements. obviously there is lots of nuance to this but generally speaking
This is essentially saying that the western patriarchal family unit is a force against fascism. If that were the case, then fascists would be against "the family", but exactly the opposite is true. You also more or less directly say that compromising with reactionaries will somehow make people less fascist, which is ridiculous. Someone who's estranged from their family specifically because they're reactionary isn't going to somehow become more fascist as a result of that, that doesn't make any sense. A deranged ultra or something, perhaps, but that's not the same thing.
I get that this is a thread about your most right-wing opinion, but yeah, this idea is reactionary as hell and trying to clumsily graft on an argument about isolation doesn't make it any better. Isolation is deranging and that is a societal problem, but this idea is absolutely not a solution to that. If anything it's a description of the problem - yes, a society where community and public spaces have been destroyed makes for a situation where this "family or isolation" dichotomy exists, and that can lead to derangement and ultimately fascism. The solution to this problem is to fix that situation, not decide that it's a good thing.
I think you're completely misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not making a "thing good" or "thing bad" argument. Like I'm not saying "the family as it has been constructed under capitalism is as force for good and should be protected at all costs"
what I'm specifically talking about is in a context that is totally removed from any real political action, which is most conversations with my reactionary family members. at least in my context they aren't materially opposing me in any real way, they just saw some shit on facebook and are vomiting it me. what I mean by find a synthesis is not find the direct center point between my opinion and theirs(my opinion being based in reality and theirs not) but instead find an aesthetic compromise that is grounded firmly in your beliefs. the thing about peoples insane right-wing delusions is most of the time its not grounded in anything other then rhetoric, at least here in north America.
(sorry if I didn't use the quote function right, I'm very new to lemmy)
What is an "aesthetic compromise" in this context? Do you have an example?
It sounds like you're just doing "tolerate people's insane right-wing delusions and be civil above all else, never imposing negative social consequences for people spreading fascist beliefs" but obscured with lots of fancy words.
Propaganda has a very real effect on material circumstances anyway. To suggest otherwise in 2025 is wild.
sure, I'll use a personal example. I was talking with a relative of mine who hates rich people but loves elon musk because he owns the libs or whatever. instead of beginning the interaction by disagreeing about elon musk being a super cool guy who's smart and awesome, I started the conversation from the perspective of agreeing with her about how much the rich suck and libs suck and yada-yada-yada but the place it ended at was that elon also sucks and that they should value less the performative aspect of our modern political climate more the substantive. so not an aesthetic compromise in the scene of a middle ground between aesthetics but the aesthetic of compromise itself. basically what I'm saying is just chill the fuck out and talk to people who you have a long relationship with instead of cutting them out in some sort of purity testing way.
that's not at ALL what I'm saying. I'm saying challenge those beliefs in a way the is effective. thinking about social interactions in a punishment/reward way isn't very effective in my experience. Also some family systems are much worse then others and some ARE in fact good and something to be protected, specifically indigenous family systems should be protected as they are to a large extent inherently anti-colonial/anti-imperialist.
sorry if this still doesn't make scene I'm not really used to having a conversation in this format so I might not be representing my point of view in the best way. please try to be charitable when interpreting what I'm saying.
I see. That's good propaganda strategy, and I agree that cutting people who have potential out in "some sort of purity testing way" is bad. That's the sort of thing insufferable shitlibs do and is a big reason why people all across the political spectrum despise them so much.
... although the "who have potential" part there is important. Fascists, famously, don't care about the norms of polite conversation or the marketplace of ideas or any of that, debating with them only legitimizes their ideas and is a serious mistake. The modern-day full-blown MAGA chud is the same way, even though they may not be a self-aware fascist. Unfortunately, many of our families are full of these people. They don't respect this nuanced discussion and compromise stuff at all. Quite the opposite, they think it's weak and gay or whatever and will use it as a weapon against you. These are people who literally don't respect facts or material reality itself.
Your relative, for example, hates rich people. Assuming this is actually true (a sort of faux-populist hatred of "elites" is an integral part of far-right propaganda and doesn't count), that's already much more potential then some of the absolutely hopeless bootlicking trash that many of us have to deal with. Even so, you said earlier (and I agree) that if something is never going to make any material difference, then it's pointless, so... have you convinced this relative to significantly change their political alignment? Did you get them to stop prioritizing triggering the libs (i.e., bigotry), over everything else? If not, then nothing was achieved, because that's the main mechanism that the fascists use to mobilize the right.
Sometimes, open hostility, ostracism, and other things that aren't nice are actually the most effective strategy. I've spent plenty of time doing exactly what you suggest, and in retrospect, in most cases I should have simply told them to go fuck themselves and seriously rethink their entire world view if they ever want to talk to me again. Personal consequences are the only thing that these people understand.
In a functioning post-capitslist society, people should be expected to work if they are reasonably able. (I'm not sure if this is really even right wing but I know a lot of people who would say that it is).
Lenin said that he who does not work shall also not eat
You're right, this isn't right-wing, guaranteed employment is in socialist constitutions. The more of us working, the less we'll individually have to. Contrast with, say, nazi Germany where they had relatively few people working many hours.
I don't want no gubbermint taking my guns.
Not even right wing, Marx said this shit
Compulsory military service is extremely important for actual democracy.
Depends, if its compulsory military service but its for a neo-liberal country id rather just shoot my commanding officer at that point lmao
I call it voting by bullet box.
This isn’t right wing, it just doesn’t make sense in many contexts. Time in the military is time that could be spent in education or other socially beneficial activities
The professional army is a cancer and the power to inflict organized violence should be spread out as evenly as possible. Also the military should allocate some of its time for infrastructure work and maybe other community services like DPRK does.
That still doesn’t make sense. A professional military is specifically trained for the purposes they are needed for and time spent in the military is time (for most people) that would otherwise be spent in training to become other needed jobs like doctors, engineers, teachers etc etc
The hierarchical structure of professional military encourages right-wing ideology and caste thinking. You can only somewhat counteract it with political education, so you need to limit the number of full-time military professionals to limit the spread of right-wing ideology. And you can't get rid of military without full worldwide victory for the socialism first.
That still takes away time that would be spent in training for socially useful and productive purposes. Maybe for those not going to college, mandatory military time could work but otherwise it would harm those other professions.
Making sure your military is not full of wannabe caudillos is a socially useful purpose. And those who are going to college should serve too in positions requiring technical knowledge or as officers.
That’s nonsensical. The top in the military are still going to be career soldiers either way. The officers aren’t going to be those forced to serve a single term. Your idea would just lead to a huge deficit of education and would only serve to empower reactionaries
That is, if the military isn't a shit show for anything but arms training and physical conditioning
For me, it's stuff that I consciously realize is wrong but unconsciously and irrationally still believe in to some extent.
I still believe in personal responsibility bootstrapping to an unreasonable degree. For example, I see obesity and drug use as personal moral failings that are wholly on the individual, and only the individual, to rectify -- for myself anyway. I don't wield it as a cudgel against others at least. Come to think of it, I think I mostly believe in this solely so I can be hard on myself.
I also for some reason vacillate between reactionary Dawkins style anti-theism (extreme to the point where I'm convinced I'd crucify Jesus again if I ever met him) and being convinced that religiosity and spirituality are prerequisites to being a good person and that my inability to convince myself that god is real means I'm an ontologically evil subhuman.
Also also I find it hard to resist my hard-wired programming to be a knee-jerk western chauvinist. A lot of my "unlimited genocide on the first world" style posting is partly to counteract this tendency within me with an opposite extreme. I guess growing up during the war on terror and never coming across opinions like "maybe all those people our government is bombing are human beings actually" until I'm an adult will do that to a person.
Same, and that's coming from someone who has been in the gutter himself. But I think that me getting out of it on my own causes thoughts like that because I also realize that systemic oppression and liberalism and whatnot play a huge part in keeping people down, so much so that bootstrapping alone isn't helping that.
I managed to get out of my shit due to 1) a lot of discipline and character and 2) let's not kid myself, privilege. And I see so many people stuck in the shit at my job and I think to myself: man, if only you'd do this or that and things might improve. But that's arrogant on my behalf, really. Like I know it all.
maybe that being a communist doesn't require to be a militant atheist. Atheism is a method for some people to avoid reactionary traps that usually come with religion
Out party consists of many religions and (so far) no problem has occurred. Not between the Muslims and the Christians, or even Muslims and LGBTQ+ community like so many libs like to go on about. Nothing. It can absolutely work when working towards socialism.
To be a communist is to be a materialist. You cannot separate the two of them
I agree, I think a materialist perspective in the realm of political thought is key, but as for people’s personal lives they can believe what they wish about the nature of the universe outside of that. So long as the org is secular and people are applying a materialist philosophy in their analysis of the natural world here then it’s completely compatible
It doesn't necessarily require it, sure. But people are frequently presented with issues which have a materialist solution that conflicts with directly with their religious idealism. It happens all the time and when that's combined with the threat of eternal punishment for doing the "wrong" thing, the idealism usually wins to the detriment of everyone.
I'm somewhat of an anti-natalist. I don't think it's necessarily smart to have children, only if you really want to but even then not too many.
I think there are too many rules when it comes to things like alcohol and cigarettes because I think it is the responsibility of the person itself and not the government. But fuck cigarette and alcohol advertising though
Lastly I don't like it when people are too affectionate in public and think they should keep it to themselves
100% on that last point LMAO, not the rest though
OK let's meet halfway, state sponsored translucent kissing booth?!
Agreed besides for the last point. I don't mind holding hands and kisses on benches. I can see your point if you mean making out or further intimacy.
Every person I know with a child does not regret having them. However, from an outside perspective, every person I know with a child has had to eat some form of major shit because of the fact they had a responsibility for that child. You are easier to control with a child. That is a simple fact.
Either or not that is worth having a child in this current system is up to you and I don't think anyone should be limited from having a child.
Idk if it's most but "Richmond is a hard road to travel" is a good tune.
It's a Confederate song about how the Union struggled to fight the slaver states, in the first half of the Civil War.
Based on all the discourse recently, my position that AI and LLMs should be outlawed.
I am an unapologetic Butlerian Jihadist
I understand the sentiment in your view, but I politely implore you to think of all the people and scientific advancement that A.I. is already helping.
There have been numerous cases of researchers using A.I., and the A.I. discovers numerous treatments for many types of diseases/illnesses, like types of cancer.
Or the A.I. come sup with new types of steel and building materials, that actually work.
I have a background in virtual screening software, where we just brute forced every compound that was commercially viable to produce (ZINC database) to see if it would bind to a cell receptor.
Having a new way to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks does not impress me.
But better AI should be able to pick stickier shits, which will save work in the long run. I agree that AI should not be used to hurt workers, but will be very important for fully automated luxury communism.
We are so far from automated luxury communism, and the idea that this technology would actually move us closer, is laughable. I honestly don't believe that any technology has actually moved us closer to Communism. They seem to actually just concentrate more and more power in fewer and fewer hands.
Look if you want your fun little tech fetish, go right ahead, but don't claim that LLMs are making the world better.
I watched the "Computer Revolution" and how it was going to fix EVERYTHING. It was going to transform the world.
All it did was just make a couple thousand people, more rich than was possible before.
All we are going to see is this buggy, hallucinating, flawed God take over everything, and like a mad God, it will make incomprehensible demands and pronouncements, and we'll all be forced to obey them, while a handful of billionaires cook the planet and extract all the value, then we all die.
It's the stupidest fucking outcome, and every person who keeps being a booster for LLMs and masks their little freakish obsession with them with flowerly marxist language makes me sick.
"actually it's good that artists, programmers, and writers are being proletarianized, replaced with a shitty hallucinatin LLM that can't actually do the work, but can bullshit it enough that management thinks they can layoff everyone and just pocket the savings"
Jesus Christ.
"Yes but we need the LLMs to destroy everyone's livelihoods so that we can have our secular version of a Rapture (violent revolution where a bunch of people who never fucking shoot guns (the SRA is a joke) win against a superior force) and finally achieve fully automated luxury Communism"
Completely delusional
When the heck did I say that LLMs are going to run society? AI is much more than just LLMs, though LLMs are the manifestation of the current stage of development of AI.
Companies like Walmart are already using automated systems to optimize product distribution and maximize profit.^[https://www.versobooks.com/products/636-the-people-s-republic-of-walmart] There is no reason why we can't use improved versions of these AI systems to centrally plan country-wide economics in the future to maximize well-being and other democratically-defined goals.
While I strongly believe in rehabilitation, I think that convicted pedophiles/rapists should be put down. I'm not sure if I want would it to be the case for every single one, but it should be on the table.
I think that everyone should have the right to own a gun for self-defense purposes. At least, ideally.
I guess in a vacuum, I can understand that proper documentation could be required in order to vote. But only in a socialist society, and only when the state guarantees everyone can access their own documents freely and like candy.
How do you handle false convictions? They are obviously very rare but doesn’t it seem like executions should be avoided considering that they do in fact occur.
Definitely not my most rightwing view, but my most rightwing conscious position is that comrades should join and build up whatever organisations they can, even if they are right-deviationists or contain reactionary elements, and fight over those inside the organisations. This includes parties with settler, LGBT-phobic, misogynous among other deviations.
I also have another view that may be seen as rightwing here (and is definitely controversial) that settler-colonialism is not the principal contradiction in current day USA, North America, or most of the rest of the Americas. It's first between the international bourgeoisie (with home base in the US) and the international proletariat, then between peripheral nations and the imperial core finance, military and cultural sectors, and only after that it's between oppressed minorities (be they native or "imported") and the national state repression force. Some day I'll take the time for this struggle session.
Rothbard has awesome smile
I think the government should have a balanced budget.
I'm not sure this would end up counting as a right wing view because of the reason behind the viewpoint, But many of my liberal associates a oppose my views on this subject, and many of my conservative associates agree, even if for the wrong reasons, so I may as well say my piece.
Prostitution and sex work in general, while it shouldn't be outright banned, as that would very quickly lead to a super exploitative black market, is generally a bad thing and should atleast be extremely heavily regulated, to the point where it ideally whithers away.
The reason for this is that I don't believe consent can really ever exist where coercion is present. Alongside this, where sexual activity occurs without the presence of consent, we call this rape. To my understanding, this is the same reasoning why we don't consider child sexual abuse victims to have consented regardless of whether they said yes to the activity, specifically because of the problem around coercion.
As Marxists, we generally understand that, when you perform labour in return for income, if you end up relying on that income to survive, as most of us do as proletarians, that opens you up to economic coercion, as if you want to stop performing the labour you're paid to do, you face losing that income and risk losing vital means of survival such as your healthcare, your home, access to food, and more. This risk often coerces us into continuing to perform labour we aren't satisfied with.
Now when it comes to prostitution, that equation moves from having to manufacture something or enter data to a spreadsheet or risk sleeping on the streets all the way to placing yourself in a particularly vulnerable position and carry out whatever sexual activity or risk starvation.
Now I do get some people just do it for fun, and when that's the case, I couldn't care less if you just go to a swingers club instead. But when there's a transaction involved, that can all too easily become coercion, and thus, at least in my book, rape.
Now admittedly, I haven't spoken to many sex workers, so I may be completely wrong in my assumptions about how this industry works. But I do believe if any regulation gets drafted in regards to the sex industry, it must interview a wide range of sex workers and make extensive efforts to address their concerns along with offering upskilling opportunities and pathways into other careers ready and open for anyone who wants to.
I do not believe any serious future society will allow completely anonymous internet for its users. There's just too much harm that comes from being able to say and do whatever without your person being associated with it.