This isn't a pity party post, it's not entirely my fault. I'm a construction site that got abandoned and water got in and now it'll cost twice as much as the original plan, and sure I could have done something about it earlier instead of just letting myself(the building?) rot but I didn't and there's no use beating myself up over it. I have missed out on 14 years or so.
I'm an unfinished person and I just need to finish myself. Which is a unique position to be in because I think a lot of people want that. I have no family and no long term connections. Which is exactly as lonely as it sounds but also makes me pretty fucking free to do whatever I want
So I have some questions that are things most people learned between the ages of 12 and 24. I didn't, which sucks. They can basically be summarised as "how do I be a human?"
How do people make friends? How do I become someone that people actively seek out interaction with? How do I do this without having any money
These are probably too broad to have any meaningful answers and I'll probably just be embarrassed by it later and delete it. Idk
OutrageousHairdo [he/him] - 3w
Easy answer to human connection? Get a hobby. Don't have any? Force yourself to get one! Don't pretend to be into something you despise, but get out of your comfort zone. That could be working on cars, playing an instrument, singing, dancing, learning a language, reading books, woodworking, camping and outdoorsmanship, any of a number of sports... Hobbies are just a cheat code because if you're meeting someone for a hobby group you automatically have something in common that you're both interested in. Look for local meetups, even if your hobby is something as niche as like, playing Super Smash Bros Melee, you're likely to find at least a few meetups. Talk to people, hit it off, if you make a friend, get their contacts (e.g. phone number, Discord account, whatever) and then a little later, ask if they'd want to drop by and hang out, or maybe go to a restaurant together, or catch a movie- etc. It may be a little daunting to be the person who makes the offer, but you should try and be outgoing about it. This might sound kinda stilted, but with practice it'll become more natural. This also applies at least partially to dating, by the way- a partner is, in my mind, just a friend you want to keep a little closer than the rest.
12
OutrageousHairdo [he/him] - 3w
Also, while I despise "How to make friends and influence people" conversational tactics self help drivel, there are ways to converse that make people like you more. I won't go into depth, but basically, if you can find the one thing that someone won't shut up about, something that gets them really animated, just listen to them talk, ask them insightful questions, be an active listener, and actively converse. Don't be a yes-man, offer your own input, but do engage them.
11
purpleworm [none/use name] - 3w
Is being new to playing an instrument a good way to meet people?
4
Chana [none/use name] - 3w
Hello, comrade! You are in no way alone. Alienation and lack of community is (get this, on the bear site!) a product of capitalism. The nuclear family and a temporary and fickle opportunity for school friends and all that, designed as one of the few means for handling basic social stability, it is also precarious and easy to lose or, for many, never gain.To then feel feel untethered like yourself. It is normal but constructed, and of course you are part of it and can try to fight against it, but it is mostly not your fault.
With that said, with (sometimes great) effort you can get tethered. Making friends? Mostly about finding other people that want a friend. Sometimes it is a shared activity and you just keep being friends even if you no longer share it. But the activity can bring you together. It could be socialist organizing, of course. But it could also be kickball or playing chess or free art lessons or volunteering at a community garden or fixing bicycles or riding a bicycle in a group or cooking food for people (Food Not Bombs etc) etc etc. Any activity you can do together, you will likely eventually find a person or three that you get along with. It might not be right away, you might need to "warm up" some rusty social skills, but it also probably won't take too long.
One nice thing about getting involved with organizing is that even the people who aren't your friends can be your comrades so long as the org is half decent. Avoid picking fights and instead go for just being liked and you will likely do pretty well, it's honestly more important than any technical competency. You will socialize with people and have connections in orgs and have it all happen on a regular basis, kind of like having work colleagues, but better because of sharing a voluntary mission. Basically, I think it is a good option to consider because you don't have to set the bar at "making friends" in an organizing space, ever, but you will still get tethered.
This also applies to volunteer spaces like the community garden or mutual aid, in their own ways.
Anyways, it's not easy because it is new people and you have to synthesize connection rather than having it created by the community itself, by default having you as a member. Atomization is real. But it is also just as complex to solve as actively seeking out mutual activity spaces. The difficulty is emotional, it is going out there and talking to strangers and getting used to certain kinds of conversations again. This is a hurdle you can get over!
I also agree with others that this isn't rock bottom, and I don't mean that dismissively. It means you have enough foundation to do this without it being just about having no feasible alternative! You have some gas in that tank, comrade. You can use it to get out there.
11
JustSo [she/her, any] - 3w
How do people make friends?
Trial and error. The more people you cross paths with the more opportunities you have to find people who enjoy your personality and the vibe you give off. When crossing paths with someone, simply being pleasant and open to conversation goes a long way towards being someone who can be a friend to other people.
Being open to and available for activities is good. Doing your own regular activity(/activities) which can optionally accommodate other people gives you an easy low stakes thing that you can invite prospective friends to. Time spent intentionally with people who find you pleasant and who you are friendly with is likely to lead to friendship growing.
Cultivating a friendship with someone who seems friendly and tolerates your company mostly comes down to being available and reliable.
It's necessary to be a good listener, which is a skill you can read about and develop. Having a genuine interest in your friends and what's going on in their lives (without becoming obsessive) helps with conversation and if you remember that thing someone complained to you about (or shared their interest in) and ask about it on a subsequent occasion it signals to the other person that you're curious about them or have a healthy concern for their well being.
Conversing with acquaintances-who-may-become-friends also helps you suss out whether you have any shared areas of interest. If you are a fairly good conversationalist and you share interests with someone who enjoys your vibe, you've got a decent chance at developing a friendship.
A friendship develops into something lasting when the two of you know each other fairly well and have some shared experiences. Just being trustworthy, useful and available often leads to shared experiences.
How do I become someone that people actively seek out interaction with?
Try not to think of it like this. You probably won't attract friends just waiting for them to approach you. It's a bad dating strategy and a worse friendship strategy.
Instead consider "How do I make sure I am tolerable?" - good hygiene, appropriate manners, don't overshare or dominate conversations, be mindful of the other person's autonomy to avoid becoming "weird"ly over invested in other people, figure out how to remember people's names.
Also consider "How do I be more interesting?" - do more with your time than passive media consumption, explore some hobbies, explore your local area, learn about stuff.
How do I do this without having any money
Volunteer your time.
Develop a regular routine that incorporates screen-free low or zero cost activities that don't rely on other people but which can accommodate them: hiking, visiting free museums, doing graffiti.
You can also find people organising meet ups online, but I don't have much experience with that.
If you just make sure you're clean, don't smell and you start volunteering your time with some social or environmental group efforts then you're going to meet people, do things, experience shit and probably get invited to hang out afterwards. I strongly urge you to consider volunteering. Even if nothing else eventuates from it, you'll have contributed to the world in a positive way and it's unlikely you'll regret spending time in service like that.
11
RedSturgeon [she/her] - 3w
You're far from the rock bottom. Being filled with hatred is what you might call rock bottom.
You have the opportunity to avoid that and fill yourself with something you care about, surround yourself with people who care and you'll naturally make friends with them. Lots of people out there spend their entire life on a goose chase, thinking "If I just had X people would like me." "If I just had Y I'd be happy." They're not even aware of it.
Also, yeah it sucks not having access to money gated things in life. I don't have money either, there's still some things you can do with very little money or without having to pay anything and you can find people doing that stuff, the more people you know the better chance you have getting more money, we're basically surrounded by nepotism anyways so the more time you spend around people and the more acquaintances and friends you have the better off you will be. Just don't do it for the sake of it, do things you care about.
11
JustSo [she/her, any] - 3w
Also, don't be embarrassed. You haven't shared much about your circumstances but what you have shared is not weird or particularly uncommon.
Don't worry too much about "finding yourself" - I seriously believe that the whole notion of going out into the world to find yourself is a toxic meme that leads us away from becoming whole people.
It's so easy to get depressed about wasted years and preoccupied with missed opportunities, but there's no going back and its only worth torturing yourself with that stuff to the extent it helps keep you from making the same mistakes in future. Otherwise, eyes forward so you don't fall in a hole.
Instead of replying to you all I figured I'd just tag you all to say thanks. You all gave good advice. I was pretty emotional when I wrote it but did leave a lot of things out, so not all the advice is applicable, but its still good advice.
Guess I've gotta go and try to find hobby groups
5
Aradino [they/them, comrade/them] - 3w
Oh and 🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵
3
JustSo [she/her, any] - 3w
Remember to try to be kind and patient with yourself as much as possible. It's hard starting over, so give yourself some grace if you hit any stumbling blocks are false starts.
3
Aradino [they/them, comrade/them] - 3w
I expect mostly false starts for a while tbh. I need to learn to give myself more slack, so I'll get plenty of experience lol
2
JustSo [she/her, any] - 3w
Are you familiar with the idea of separating your self identity from your thoughts, so you can learn not to immediately internalise habitual negative self talk and that sort of thing? Might be relevant and useful.
I've gotten pretty good at aikido'ing intrusive self-bullying thoughts out of my mind before they do damage. Its helped a lot with self esteem and "ideations" etc. I still have all these learned/inherited values that I don't even believe in but still have to combat all the time to avoid feeling like a complete loser.
(But I gotta find a place to volunteer. Pretty sure it's the missing thing for me. I've tried reconnecting with old friends and came to the sad realisation that I don't actually like spending time with most of them.)
Anyway, I hope have some early successes regardless of how long it takes to get to a place where you're happy and content with your circumstances n shit.
2
Aradino [they/them, comrade/them] - 3w
Are you familiar with the idea of separating your self identity from your thoughts, so you can learn not to immediately internalise habitual negative self talk and that sort of thing? Might be relevant and useful.
Sort of. I'm aware I should do it and often do but don't know any strategies or anything. I'll look it up
2
JustSo [she/her, any] - 3w
You might find a bunch of meditation oriented info but don't let that turn you off if it's not your thing. It's a habit or skill that gets easier and more automatic over time. Tho, I'm not an authority by any means, I still sometimes tell myself "no" out loud if I feel a bad though spiral forming. Pretty crude but it seems to break the cycle so I can focus my attention elsewhere.
Aradino in chat
I think I'm at rock bottom. Now what?
This isn't a pity party post, it's not entirely my fault. I'm a construction site that got abandoned and water got in and now it'll cost twice as much as the original plan, and sure I could have done something about it earlier instead of just letting myself(the building?) rot but I didn't and there's no use beating myself up over it. I have missed out on 14 years or so.
I'm an unfinished person and I just need to finish myself. Which is a unique position to be in because I think a lot of people want that. I have no family and no long term connections. Which is exactly as lonely as it sounds but also makes me pretty fucking free to do whatever I want
So I have some questions that are things most people learned between the ages of 12 and 24. I didn't, which sucks. They can basically be summarised as "how do I be a human?"
How do people make friends? How do I become someone that people actively seek out interaction with? How do I do this without having any money
These are probably too broad to have any meaningful answers and I'll probably just be embarrassed by it later and delete it. Idk
Easy answer to human connection? Get a hobby. Don't have any? Force yourself to get one! Don't pretend to be into something you despise, but get out of your comfort zone. That could be working on cars, playing an instrument, singing, dancing, learning a language, reading books, woodworking, camping and outdoorsmanship, any of a number of sports... Hobbies are just a cheat code because if you're meeting someone for a hobby group you automatically have something in common that you're both interested in. Look for local meetups, even if your hobby is something as niche as like, playing Super Smash Bros Melee, you're likely to find at least a few meetups. Talk to people, hit it off, if you make a friend, get their contacts (e.g. phone number, Discord account, whatever) and then a little later, ask if they'd want to drop by and hang out, or maybe go to a restaurant together, or catch a movie- etc. It may be a little daunting to be the person who makes the offer, but you should try and be outgoing about it. This might sound kinda stilted, but with practice it'll become more natural. This also applies at least partially to dating, by the way- a partner is, in my mind, just a friend you want to keep a little closer than the rest.
Also, while I despise "How to make friends and influence people" conversational tactics self help drivel, there are ways to converse that make people like you more. I won't go into depth, but basically, if you can find the one thing that someone won't shut up about, something that gets them really animated, just listen to them talk, ask them insightful questions, be an active listener, and actively converse. Don't be a yes-man, offer your own input, but do engage them.
Is being new to playing an instrument a good way to meet people?
Hello, comrade! You are in no way alone. Alienation and lack of community is (get this, on the bear site!) a product of capitalism. The nuclear family and a temporary and fickle opportunity for school friends and all that, designed as one of the few means for handling basic social stability, it is also precarious and easy to lose or, for many, never gain.To then feel feel untethered like yourself. It is normal but constructed, and of course you are part of it and can try to fight against it, but it is mostly not your fault.
With that said, with (sometimes great) effort you can get tethered. Making friends? Mostly about finding other people that want a friend. Sometimes it is a shared activity and you just keep being friends even if you no longer share it. But the activity can bring you together. It could be socialist organizing, of course. But it could also be kickball or playing chess or free art lessons or volunteering at a community garden or fixing bicycles or riding a bicycle in a group or cooking food for people (Food Not Bombs etc) etc etc. Any activity you can do together, you will likely eventually find a person or three that you get along with. It might not be right away, you might need to "warm up" some rusty social skills, but it also probably won't take too long.
One nice thing about getting involved with organizing is that even the people who aren't your friends can be your comrades so long as the org is half decent. Avoid picking fights and instead go for just being liked and you will likely do pretty well, it's honestly more important than any technical competency. You will socialize with people and have connections in orgs and have it all happen on a regular basis, kind of like having work colleagues, but better because of sharing a voluntary mission. Basically, I think it is a good option to consider because you don't have to set the bar at "making friends" in an organizing space, ever, but you will still get tethered.
This also applies to volunteer spaces like the community garden or mutual aid, in their own ways.
Anyways, it's not easy because it is new people and you have to synthesize connection rather than having it created by the community itself, by default having you as a member. Atomization is real. But it is also just as complex to solve as actively seeking out mutual activity spaces. The difficulty is emotional, it is going out there and talking to strangers and getting used to certain kinds of conversations again. This is a hurdle you can get over!
I also agree with others that this isn't rock bottom, and I don't mean that dismissively. It means you have enough foundation to do this without it being just about having no feasible alternative! You have some gas in that tank, comrade. You can use it to get out there.
Trial and error. The more people you cross paths with the more opportunities you have to find people who enjoy your personality and the vibe you give off. When crossing paths with someone, simply being pleasant and open to conversation goes a long way towards being someone who can be a friend to other people.
Being open to and available for activities is good. Doing your own regular activity(/activities) which can optionally accommodate other people gives you an easy low stakes thing that you can invite prospective friends to. Time spent intentionally with people who find you pleasant and who you are friendly with is likely to lead to friendship growing.
Cultivating a friendship with someone who seems friendly and tolerates your company mostly comes down to being available and reliable.
It's necessary to be a good listener, which is a skill you can read about and develop. Having a genuine interest in your friends and what's going on in their lives (without becoming obsessive) helps with conversation and if you remember that thing someone complained to you about (or shared their interest in) and ask about it on a subsequent occasion it signals to the other person that you're curious about them or have a healthy concern for their well being.
Conversing with acquaintances-who-may-become-friends also helps you suss out whether you have any shared areas of interest. If you are a fairly good conversationalist and you share interests with someone who enjoys your vibe, you've got a decent chance at developing a friendship.
A friendship develops into something lasting when the two of you know each other fairly well and have some shared experiences. Just being trustworthy, useful and available often leads to shared experiences.
Try not to think of it like this. You probably won't attract friends just waiting for them to approach you. It's a bad dating strategy and a worse friendship strategy.
Instead consider "How do I make sure I am tolerable?" - good hygiene, appropriate manners, don't overshare or dominate conversations, be mindful of the other person's autonomy to avoid becoming "weird"ly over invested in other people, figure out how to remember people's names.
Also consider "How do I be more interesting?" - do more with your time than passive media consumption, explore some hobbies, explore your local area, learn about stuff.
Volunteer your time.
Develop a regular routine that incorporates screen-free low or zero cost activities that don't rely on other people but which can accommodate them: hiking, visiting free museums, doing graffiti.
You can also find people organising meet ups online, but I don't have much experience with that.
If you just make sure you're clean, don't smell and you start volunteering your time with some social or environmental group efforts then you're going to meet people, do things, experience shit and probably get invited to hang out afterwards. I strongly urge you to consider volunteering. Even if nothing else eventuates from it, you'll have contributed to the world in a positive way and it's unlikely you'll regret spending time in service like that.
You're far from the rock bottom. Being filled with hatred is what you might call rock bottom.
You have the opportunity to avoid that and fill yourself with something you care about, surround yourself with people who care and you'll naturally make friends with them. Lots of people out there spend their entire life on a goose chase, thinking "If I just had X people would like me." "If I just had Y I'd be happy." They're not even aware of it.
Also, yeah it sucks not having access to money gated things in life. I don't have money either, there's still some things you can do with very little money or without having to pay anything and you can find people doing that stuff, the more people you know the better chance you have getting more money, we're basically surrounded by nepotism anyways so the more time you spend around people and the more acquaintances and friends you have the better off you will be. Just don't do it for the sake of it, do things you care about.
Also, don't be embarrassed. You haven't shared much about your circumstances but what you have shared is not weird or particularly uncommon.
Don't worry too much about "finding yourself" - I seriously believe that the whole notion of going out into the world to find yourself is a toxic meme that leads us away from becoming whole people.
It's so easy to get depressed about wasted years and preoccupied with missed opportunities, but there's no going back and its only worth torturing yourself with that stuff to the extent it helps keep you from making the same mistakes in future. Otherwise, eyes forward so you don't fall in a hole.
@Chana@hexbear.net @JustSo@hexbear.net @RedSturgeon@hexbear.net @OutrageousHairdo@hexbear.net
Instead of replying to you all I figured I'd just tag you all to say thanks. You all gave good advice. I was pretty emotional when I wrote it but did leave a lot of things out, so not all the advice is applicable, but its still good advice.
Guess I've gotta go and try to find hobby groups
Oh and 🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵
Remember to try to be kind and patient with yourself as much as possible. It's hard starting over, so give yourself some grace if you hit any stumbling blocks are false starts.
I expect mostly false starts for a while tbh. I need to learn to give myself more slack, so I'll get plenty of experience lol
Are you familiar with the idea of separating your self identity from your thoughts, so you can learn not to immediately internalise habitual negative self talk and that sort of thing? Might be relevant and useful.
I've gotten pretty good at aikido'ing intrusive self-bullying thoughts out of my mind before they do damage. Its helped a lot with self esteem and "ideations" etc. I still have all these learned/inherited values that I don't even believe in but still have to combat all the time to avoid feeling like a complete loser.
(But I gotta find a place to volunteer. Pretty sure it's the missing thing for me. I've tried reconnecting with old friends and came to the sad realisation that I don't actually like spending time with most of them.)
Anyway, I hope have some early successes regardless of how long it takes to get to a place where you're happy and content with your circumstances n shit.
Sort of. I'm aware I should do it and often do but don't know any strategies or anything. I'll look it up
You might find a bunch of meditation oriented info but don't let that turn you off if it's not your thing. It's a habit or skill that gets easier and more automatic over time. Tho, I'm not an authority by any means, I still sometimes tell myself "no" out loud if I feel a bad though spiral forming. Pretty crude but it seems to break the cycle so I can focus my attention elsewhere.
Enough of my rambling tho. ✌️
Your rambling was very helpful!