Really interesting bit of history
::: spoiler discussing the Soviet Sino split
There's one thing which I think many people in China themselves don't know but which is talked about in Russia quite a lot. After the overthrow of Stalin, the Soviet leadership wanted the Chinese Communist Party to ouster Mao the way Khrushchev was ousted. Zhou Enlai came to Moscow, and there was an expectation and hope that this would lead to an improvement in relations between the Soviet Union and China.
Over the course of that meeting, the Soviet defense minister, a man called Marshall Malinowski, came up to Zhou Enlai. Zhou Enlai assumed that Malinowski was talking on behalf of the entire Soviet leadership. He said, "Look, we've just overthrown our own idiot, Khrushchev. Why don't you do the same thing to Mao?"
Zhou Enlai said, "Under no circumstances. If you think that's what I'm about, if you think that this is what China's about, you have misunderstood us completely."
Zhou Enlai reported this to Mao. Mao was of course extremely angry and very alarmed. He then messaged Moscow and said, "What is this?" He was expecting that the Soviet leadership would repudiate Malinowski or even sack him, and they didn't. So after that, Mao completely understandably assumed that they really were out to get him, which probably many of them were.
We also now know that there was a faction within the Soviet leadership at that time, led by a man called Alexander Shelepin, who wanted to improve relations with China. He was a committed communist and he wanted to reunite the communist movement. He was secretary to the central committee and he was in conflict with Brezhnev, who was the Soviet leader at this time. Of course, he lost the internal power struggle in Moscow, but quite possibly relations with China were affected by this internal power struggle.
This has been talked a lot about in Moscow because the Russians, just to say this, blame themselves for the failure of the relationship with China in the 60s. It is well understood in Moscow today that they made a whole succession of catastrophic errors, that they treated China and Mao himself with extreme disrespect. And there is a very widespread view in Russia today that the single reason why the Soviet Union collapsed was precisely because of the split in the communist movement and the fact that the Soviet Union found itself in the 70s pitted against both China and the United States simultaneously, and this broke its resources.
:::
I'd love to know his sources and be able to dive into them a bit more and verify his take.
6
cfgaussian - 2w
Yes i thought that was very interesting too. It shows that there is much more discussion and understanding of the Sino-Soviet split in both Russia and China than even we as communists typically know if we just read history from Western sources.
3
TankieReplyBot - 2w
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
cfgaussian in geopolitics
Japan disrupting post-war world order. ASML stop servicing China. The West fails to understand China
https://youtu.be/gvpof0DGO8oReally interesting bit of history ::: spoiler discussing the Soviet Sino split
There's one thing which I think many people in China themselves don't know but which is talked about in Russia quite a lot. After the overthrow of Stalin, the Soviet leadership wanted the Chinese Communist Party to ouster Mao the way Khrushchev was ousted. Zhou Enlai came to Moscow, and there was an expectation and hope that this would lead to an improvement in relations between the Soviet Union and China.
Over the course of that meeting, the Soviet defense minister, a man called Marshall Malinowski, came up to Zhou Enlai. Zhou Enlai assumed that Malinowski was talking on behalf of the entire Soviet leadership. He said, "Look, we've just overthrown our own idiot, Khrushchev. Why don't you do the same thing to Mao?"
Zhou Enlai said, "Under no circumstances. If you think that's what I'm about, if you think that this is what China's about, you have misunderstood us completely."
Zhou Enlai reported this to Mao. Mao was of course extremely angry and very alarmed. He then messaged Moscow and said, "What is this?" He was expecting that the Soviet leadership would repudiate Malinowski or even sack him, and they didn't. So after that, Mao completely understandably assumed that they really were out to get him, which probably many of them were.
We also now know that there was a faction within the Soviet leadership at that time, led by a man called Alexander Shelepin, who wanted to improve relations with China. He was a committed communist and he wanted to reunite the communist movement. He was secretary to the central committee and he was in conflict with Brezhnev, who was the Soviet leader at this time. Of course, he lost the internal power struggle in Moscow, but quite possibly relations with China were affected by this internal power struggle.
This has been talked a lot about in Moscow because the Russians, just to say this, blame themselves for the failure of the relationship with China in the 60s. It is well understood in Moscow today that they made a whole succession of catastrophic errors, that they treated China and Mao himself with extreme disrespect. And there is a very widespread view in Russia today that the single reason why the Soviet Union collapsed was precisely because of the split in the communist movement and the fact that the Soviet Union found itself in the 70s pitted against both China and the United States simultaneously, and this broke its resources. ::: I'd love to know his sources and be able to dive into them a bit more and verify his take.
Yes i thought that was very interesting too. It shows that there is much more discussion and understanding of the Sino-Soviet split in both Russia and China than even we as communists typically know if we just read history from Western sources.
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: