I was reading about Mao's early guerrilla campaigns in Hunan and such, and the incorrect Li Lisen and Chen Duxiu lines. Despite there being massive losses taken during both the reconcilitory and adventurist periods, Mao never split from the CPC and that seemed to work pretty well.
Conversely, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknect [along with many other members] didn't split from the SPD to form the KPD until the start of the German Revolution, and arguably this contributed to their downfall.
Obviously the SPD is an extreme example, but still. Is there a good way to tell when a split should occur, and the best way to do it?
star (she) - 1mon
the bolsheviks became a faction of RSDLP in 1903 and only formally split in 1912-1914. The split mainly occurred because of opportunism / petite bourgeois tendencies in the ranks of the mensheviks. if they stayed as one party the opportunism would surely have doomed the revolution.
14
darkernations - 1mon
As a rule of thumb you should not split if you can take over without tailism; (whatever you do) you want to make it harder for your enemy to win over the people who are at the fringes of supporting you.
11
Commiejones - 1mon
I think Lenin's The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky really outlines the types of revisionism and opportunism to look out for and a good formulation for drawing the lines of a split.
Your fist goal should be to correct the deviation in the individual pushing it, second correct the party by pushing for the expelling of the problematic members, Finally a split needs to happen after you have made it abundantly clear to the party what ideas are problematic and the individuals who are pushing those ideas and a line is drawn between the supporters of the deviation and those who are not.
::: spoiler this would be my plan
Start by countering a revisionist idea directly when it is stated. (obviously) \
That failing, start small discussions on the idea in general without naming names or finger pointing so I can find supporters to quietly form a tight group dedicated to purging the revisionist ideas from the party.
Hopefully gather a few well spoken individuals in the clique and in secret hash out the specifics of what the ideological basis of the conflict is and formulate the counter argument and the theory supporting that position. During this period try to get recordings of the deviant pushing their poison or screen grabs of their published statements (direct quotes to refute and documentation of them is good so they cant accuse me of putting words in their mouth) and see if they have consistent rhetorical lines that ready made counters can be developed for. (get basic intel to develop a strategy) Maybe have some members of the group try to egg on the offender to firm up and radicalize their position on the matter.
Then once the opponents arguments and the counters based in theory are all laid out, prepare a direct debate/conflict with the revisionists inside a party function (ambush them). Have one of the members of the clique (a less debate confident one) open up the debate with an innocent seeming question. (get the revisionist into teaching mode) Let the revisionist talk for a bit while taking notes and then have the best debater/theoretician step in and start thrashing their ideas mercilessly, note by note. (make it personal)
Record the conflict and transcribe it. Then get into writing mode and expand your position and back it with theory. Publish the denouncement and circulate it in the party (maybe even print a few hard copies to share around).
Hopefully this process can build enough support to form a majority. If the majority is against the revisionism there wont need to be a split because the mass will be able to expel the problem person and anyone else who refuses to hold the party line.
If the majority party line becomes revisionist that is when the group needs to split but only after forcing the party to push us out and trying to get every member of the party to consider which side of the divide they are on.
:::
King_Simp in genzhou
When *should* you split?
I was reading about Mao's early guerrilla campaigns in Hunan and such, and the incorrect Li Lisen and Chen Duxiu lines. Despite there being massive losses taken during both the reconcilitory and adventurist periods, Mao never split from the CPC and that seemed to work pretty well.
Conversely, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknect [along with many other members] didn't split from the SPD to form the KPD until the start of the German Revolution, and arguably this contributed to their downfall.
Obviously the SPD is an extreme example, but still. Is there a good way to tell when a split should occur, and the best way to do it?
the bolsheviks became a faction of RSDLP in 1903 and only formally split in 1912-1914. The split mainly occurred because of opportunism / petite bourgeois tendencies in the ranks of the mensheviks. if they stayed as one party the opportunism would surely have doomed the revolution.
As a rule of thumb you should not split if you can take over without tailism; (whatever you do) you want to make it harder for your enemy to win over the people who are at the fringes of supporting you.
I think Lenin's The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky really outlines the types of revisionism and opportunism to look out for and a good formulation for drawing the lines of a split.
Your fist goal should be to correct the deviation in the individual pushing it, second correct the party by pushing for the expelling of the problematic members, Finally a split needs to happen after you have made it abundantly clear to the party what ideas are problematic and the individuals who are pushing those ideas and a line is drawn between the supporters of the deviation and those who are not.
::: spoiler this would be my plan Start by countering a revisionist idea directly when it is stated. (obviously) \ That failing, start small discussions on the idea in general without naming names or finger pointing so I can find supporters to quietly form a tight group dedicated to purging the revisionist ideas from the party.
Hopefully gather a few well spoken individuals in the clique and in secret hash out the specifics of what the ideological basis of the conflict is and formulate the counter argument and the theory supporting that position. During this period try to get recordings of the deviant pushing their poison or screen grabs of their published statements (direct quotes to refute and documentation of them is good so they cant accuse me of putting words in their mouth) and see if they have consistent rhetorical lines that ready made counters can be developed for. (get basic intel to develop a strategy) Maybe have some members of the group try to egg on the offender to firm up and radicalize their position on the matter.
Then once the opponents arguments and the counters based in theory are all laid out, prepare a direct debate/conflict with the revisionists inside a party function (ambush them). Have one of the members of the clique (a less debate confident one) open up the debate with an innocent seeming question. (get the revisionist into teaching mode) Let the revisionist talk for a bit while taking notes and then have the best debater/theoretician step in and start thrashing their ideas mercilessly, note by note. (make it personal)
Record the conflict and transcribe it. Then get into writing mode and expand your position and back it with theory. Publish the denouncement and circulate it in the party (maybe even print a few hard copies to share around).
Hopefully this process can build enough support to form a majority. If the majority is against the revisionism there wont need to be a split because the mass will be able to expel the problem person and anyone else who refuses to hold the party line.
If the majority party line becomes revisionist that is when the group needs to split but only after forcing the party to push us out and trying to get every member of the party to consider which side of the divide they are on. :::