Yet again accepting suggestions for the theory discussion group
It is once again, again, time to collect more suggestions. As usual, texts should be Marxist theory of some kind and will be selected (if appropriate) roughly based on number of upvotes.
For those who aren't interested in participating, is there any particular reason other than the time commitment? Leave your answer in the comments and don't forget to like and subscribe
Avoid suggesting the following texts since they've already been used:
This is not a suggestion for theory but i would like to put forward the idea of interspersing the reading of theory with some history reading every now and then. Understanding history helps to contextualize and make sense of many of the older theory texts that communists should read, and we should not assume that everyone who is interested in learning about communism already has a solid understanding of history. In many countries history education is very lacking, and even when it's not it's usually taught with a very anti-communist, pro-liberal, and pro-Western bias.
19
DornerStan - 3mon
Especially because a good portion of the theory that people read is a direct response to either the context of its time or other theorists. Very little of it is meant to be treated as universal truths, which is a trend I've been noticing a lot among the Western left.
18
cfgaussian - 3mon
Very little of it is meant to be treated as universal truths, which is a trend I've been noticing a lot among the Western left.
Exactly. Without understanding historical context you won't correctly learn the lessons the theory is trying to teach you.
10
LeninZedong - 3mon
Though there is the opposite problem of some people treating universal truths as if they are mendable (coughs so hard I accidentally say "Economists" and "Bernstein"). Do you think that universalizing the nonuniversalizable is more common than the other way around in western leftism?
4
cfgaussian - 3mon
Do you think that universalizing the nonuniversalizable is more common than the other way around in western leftism?
In general, yes, i would say so.
8
DornerStan - 3mon
I'd say so. You commonly see people quote mining theorists to make a point. Treating works like sacred scriptural texts in which each sentence is a verse of timeless wisdom. Too many people get stuck in marxism 101: class reductionism, vulgar materialism, determinism, spontaneity fetishism.*
I'd venture to say there isn't much utility in ever assuming universality, other than maybe temporarily to accommodate beginners (kinda like how Newtonian physics is still taught in lower level physics classes).
If a concept is true it can be argued for and stand up on its own merits, just like it was in its original context. We can examine modern modes of production and see that in many ways the fundamentals have not changed since Marx's analysis, for example. We can examine how things differ and think about how that might change the analysis.
If nothing else, doing so is a useful practice for the learner, honing their dynamic analytical ability rather than flatly memorizing the thoughts of one person.
*Although those specific shortcomings might be a result of not enough reading period, since they all get addressed in the theory. Still, reading to understand analysis is more productive than reading to memorize conclusions.
3
LeninZedong - 3mon
I have not noticed that problem before (though I have experienced my conservative professor saying communists treat communism like a religion lol). Marxism 101 is unfortunately what one might be stuck in if they are not interested in learning deeper facets of Marxism.
Honing analytical ability is an interesting way to put it.
2
DornerStan - 3mon
I have a half-baked thesis that treating things like religion is a Statesian thing, because I have noticed it a lot, but not in a way that's unique to communists. My only off-internet experience of it among leftists though was a trot org.
Off the top of my head, one example of questionable universalization is referencing Marx to oppose modern gun control measures. It may or may not be correct for leftists to oppose them, but "under no pretexts" is a platitude with little more relevance than "shall not be infringed".
Another is invoking revolutionary defeatism against countries the West is attacking.
I'd argue the trend of people adopting fringe identities online (like adopting one specific Marxist-Leninist as their saint who was more correct than the others) is a result of this. Since Marxism-Leninism is supposed to be dynamically applied, different circumstances/theorists can have different conclusions and still just be Marxist-Leninists. No need to be a Dengist or Stalinist or whatever, they're all ML.
4
LeninZedong - 3mon
Well, it could be projecting their understanding of the world onto other people (ewww Trotskyism).
What way could you reference Marx to oppose gun control measures? I know of a YouTuber (Wisecrack, I believe) that said Marx did not necessarily support revolution, but I have never heard of the "Marx would have opposed gun control" idea.
Revolutionary defeatism? Could you clarify this point?
Yeah, there is a whole community based on ideologies, and it ends up being really inaccurate sometimes (I think there is also extensive use of the political compass, which is not useful).
3
LeninZedong - 3mon
yeah, history over here in the West is idealist (great man theory is rampant, even if they claim to disagree with it), and it has some obviously racist tropes used towards those of former and current socialist countries (DPRK has the worst of it by far if we are talking about current countries, though); history would be a great way to remove these noxious influences by telling a correct version of it.
10
Saymaz - 3mon
That's a long way to say 'Historical Materialism'.
2
DumbBrokeLeftist - 3mon
Suggestions
Kwame Nkrumah's Handbook of Revolutionary Warfare
BanyanHouse's Curriculum of the Basic Principles of Marxism-Leninism: Part 1
Leslie Feinberg's Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue
12
Saymaz - 3mon
Black skin, white Masks.
11
Commiejones - 3mon
I think we did wretched of the earth not that long ago didn't we?
2
Saymaz - 3mon
Oh yeah.
2
asdasd201 - 3mon
Why I don't join the discussions? Because I am rehabilitating my ruined attention span and trying to finish my already bloated reading list. When I finish them, I will come and check the threads.
On War, by Carl Philipp Gottlieb von Clausewitz. This book is very influential on Lenin's thinking about war, and it influenced the whole Red Army war doctrine. Today with the increasing number of wars and the growing efficacy of asymmetrical warfare in regards to resistance against imperialism, it's important to understand war, strategy and tactics and it's ramifications with politics.
5
LeninZedong - 3mon
Unfortunately, finding a complete copy was apparently quite difficult for me because back when I tried to find a full copy, I just got shorter versions online (I never tried to buy the physical versions).
Never heard of these before... they sound interesting
2
znsh - 3mon
Stalin: History and Critique of A Black Legend & Western Marxism by Losurdo?
4
LeninZedong - 3mon
Ooh that could be good. Unfortunately, I did not get around to reading it in-depth, but learning more about Stalin would be good (because even though I know he was based, I do not know exactly why).
3
Rogelio_Marciano - 3mon
Hi everyone, how about Eric Hobsbawm's modern history books? I agree theory works better in context.
3
amemorablename - 3mon
For those who aren’t interested in participating, is there any particular reason other than the time commitment? Leave your answer in the comments and don’t forget to like and subscribe
I wouldn't say I am not interested exactly, but I have extra trouble committing to participation in things if there's not a change in physical space to accompany it (e.g. literally going to a different location to do it) and I don't like half-assing after saying I will, so it's easier to jump in when I find the impetus to. Or at least, that is the best I can explain it in words.
3
syzygy - 3mon
This probably doesn't qualify as Marxist text but I've been reading 'Relationship Anarchy' and it's been insanely enlightening.
2
LeninZedong - 3mon
What is it about?
1
Punpun - 3mon
Some Rosa luxemburg, or Byung Chul Han - Psychopolitics, interesting book if read critically
2
LeninZedong - 3mon
I am looking at some of these recommendations and they mostly appear to be works that would actually inform us on important aspects of politics and socio-economics, but I have a different proposal: can we read some trash that will tell us what actions not to take or what ideologies to not follow?
GrainEater in theory
Yet again accepting suggestions for the theory discussion group
It is once again, again, time to collect more suggestions. As usual, texts should be Marxist theory of some kind and will be selected (if appropriate) roughly based on number of upvotes.
For those who aren't interested in participating, is there any particular reason other than the time commitment? Leave your answer in the comments and don't forget to like and subscribe
Avoid suggesting the following texts since they've already been used:
::: spoiler Previous texts Marx:
Engels:
Lenin:
Stalin:
Mao:
Other:
This is not a suggestion for theory but i would like to put forward the idea of interspersing the reading of theory with some history reading every now and then. Understanding history helps to contextualize and make sense of many of the older theory texts that communists should read, and we should not assume that everyone who is interested in learning about communism already has a solid understanding of history. In many countries history education is very lacking, and even when it's not it's usually taught with a very anti-communist, pro-liberal, and pro-Western bias.
Especially because a good portion of the theory that people read is a direct response to either the context of its time or other theorists. Very little of it is meant to be treated as universal truths, which is a trend I've been noticing a lot among the Western left.
Exactly. Without understanding historical context you won't correctly learn the lessons the theory is trying to teach you.
Though there is the opposite problem of some people treating universal truths as if they are mendable (coughs so hard I accidentally say "Economists" and "Bernstein"). Do you think that universalizing the nonuniversalizable is more common than the other way around in western leftism?
In general, yes, i would say so.
I'd say so. You commonly see people quote mining theorists to make a point. Treating works like sacred scriptural texts in which each sentence is a verse of timeless wisdom. Too many people get stuck in marxism 101: class reductionism, vulgar materialism, determinism, spontaneity fetishism.*
I'd venture to say there isn't much utility in ever assuming universality, other than maybe temporarily to accommodate beginners (kinda like how Newtonian physics is still taught in lower level physics classes).
If a concept is true it can be argued for and stand up on its own merits, just like it was in its original context. We can examine modern modes of production and see that in many ways the fundamentals have not changed since Marx's analysis, for example. We can examine how things differ and think about how that might change the analysis.
If nothing else, doing so is a useful practice for the learner, honing their dynamic analytical ability rather than flatly memorizing the thoughts of one person.
*Although those specific shortcomings might be a result of not enough reading period, since they all get addressed in the theory. Still, reading to understand analysis is more productive than reading to memorize conclusions.
I have not noticed that problem before (though I have experienced my conservative professor saying communists treat communism like a religion lol). Marxism 101 is unfortunately what one might be stuck in if they are not interested in learning deeper facets of Marxism.
Honing analytical ability is an interesting way to put it.
I have a half-baked thesis that treating things like religion is a Statesian thing, because I have noticed it a lot, but not in a way that's unique to communists. My only off-internet experience of it among leftists though was a trot org.
Off the top of my head, one example of questionable universalization is referencing Marx to oppose modern gun control measures. It may or may not be correct for leftists to oppose them, but "under no pretexts" is a platitude with little more relevance than "shall not be infringed".
Another is invoking revolutionary defeatism against countries the West is attacking.
I'd argue the trend of people adopting fringe identities online (like adopting one specific Marxist-Leninist as their saint who was more correct than the others) is a result of this. Since Marxism-Leninism is supposed to be dynamically applied, different circumstances/theorists can have different conclusions and still just be Marxist-Leninists. No need to be a Dengist or Stalinist or whatever, they're all ML.
Well, it could be projecting their understanding of the world onto other people (ewww Trotskyism). What way could you reference Marx to oppose gun control measures? I know of a YouTuber (Wisecrack, I believe) that said Marx did not necessarily support revolution, but I have never heard of the "Marx would have opposed gun control" idea. Revolutionary defeatism? Could you clarify this point? Yeah, there is a whole community based on ideologies, and it ends up being really inaccurate sometimes (I think there is also extensive use of the political compass, which is not useful).
yeah, history over here in the West is idealist (great man theory is rampant, even if they claim to disagree with it), and it has some obviously racist tropes used towards those of former and current socialist countries (DPRK has the worst of it by far if we are talking about current countries, though); history would be a great way to remove these noxious influences by telling a correct version of it.
That's a long way to say 'Historical Materialism'.
Suggestions
Kwame Nkrumah's Handbook of Revolutionary Warfare
BanyanHouse's Curriculum of the Basic Principles of Marxism-Leninism: Part 1
Leslie Feinberg's Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue
I think we did wretched of the earth not that long ago didn't we?
Oh yeah.
Why I don't join the discussions? Because I am rehabilitating my ruined attention span and trying to finish my already bloated reading list. When I finish them, I will come and check the threads.
Some Deng Xiaoping https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Category:Library_works_by_Deng_Xiaoping
On War, by Carl Philipp Gottlieb von Clausewitz. This book is very influential on Lenin's thinking about war, and it influenced the whole Red Army war doctrine. Today with the increasing number of wars and the growing efficacy of asymmetrical warfare in regards to resistance against imperialism, it's important to understand war, strategy and tactics and it's ramifications with politics.
Unfortunately, finding a complete copy was apparently quite difficult for me because back when I tried to find a full copy, I just got shorter versions online (I never tried to buy the physical versions).
Edit: Oh, I would also like a discussion on that.
I link one here in the foreword (more intuitive than the one included in the page imo) https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:On_War
Forgive my ignorance - is there somewhere people meet off of lemmy where discussions are had? Or is it all happening here in the comments sections?
we used to have a Matrix group, but now it's just in the comments
that sounds a bit sad :<
Its just online.
Franz Fanon’s, Black Skin White Masks
James Baldwins unfinished work, Remember This House
The right deviation in the CPSU
On Khrushchov's Phoney Communism
Never heard of these before... they sound interesting
Stalin: History and Critique of A Black Legend & Western Marxism by Losurdo?
Ooh that could be good. Unfortunately, I did not get around to reading it in-depth, but learning more about Stalin would be good (because even though I know he was based, I do not know exactly why).
Hi everyone, how about Eric Hobsbawm's modern history books? I agree theory works better in context.
I wouldn't say I am not interested exactly, but I have extra trouble committing to participation in things if there's not a change in physical space to accompany it (e.g. literally going to a different location to do it) and I don't like half-assing after saying I will, so it's easier to jump in when I find the impetus to. Or at least, that is the best I can explain it in words.
This probably doesn't qualify as Marxist text but I've been reading 'Relationship Anarchy' and it's been insanely enlightening.
What is it about?
Some Rosa luxemburg, or Byung Chul Han - Psychopolitics, interesting book if read critically
I am looking at some of these recommendations and they mostly appear to be works that would actually inform us on important aspects of politics and socio-economics, but I have a different proposal: can we read some trash that will tell us what actions not to take or what ideologies to not follow?
Maybe some Hoxha or Bordiga?