The Socialists, led by Pedro Sánchez, the prime minister, included plans to limit participation in female sports to “people with a female biological sex” in a policy document decided on at the party’s congress over the weekend.
The decision to also remove Q+ from a plan to protect sexual and gender minorities from the impact of social inequality sparked fury from LGBTQ+ activists and politicians from Left-wing partners of Mr Sánchez’s minority government.
The passing of a transgender rights reform in 2023, allowing anyone to change their official sex simply by stating their wish to switch, caused a bitter rift within Spain’s ruling Left-wing forces.
Carmen Calvo, the former Socialist deputy prime minister, said at the time the reform would “destroy the powerful battery of equality legislation in our country”.
Pathetic display from so-called socialists
TGhost [She/Her] - 1.0yr
Trans rights are Humans Rights
Disgusting,
47
Raymond Shannon - 1.0yr
Who will betray us? Social Democrats.
42
Luffy - 1.0yr
Wer hat uns verraten? Die sozialdemokraten. Wer war mit dabei? Die grüne Partei
Disgusting. There is no liberation without trans liberation.
31
CutieBootieTootie [she/her] - 1.0yr
Social democracy is the left wing of fascism
31
some pirate - 1.0yr
lmao what
-3
CutieBootieTootie [she/her] - 1.0yr
Social democracy and social democrats are more focused on maintenance of the current society than on fundamentally changing it, and the most critical part of the current society is the domination of one economic class (the ruling class, bourgeois class, whatever you want to call it). This party, as a social democratic party and not a revolutionary socialist party, is more interested in the maintenance of the gains they've made while not challenging the fundamentals of bourgeois class rule. Necessarily though, that means they'll abandon trans people like us, so this makes sense in a sad way. Much like how liberals and social democrats will talk about their lofty goals, but ultimately cooperate and work with fascists and fascism; when revolutionary changes are taken off the table, backsliding is inevitable.
24
Frogmanfromlake [none/use name] - 1.0yr
Hasn’t their socialist party been more neoliberal for a while?
18
Gosplan14_the_Third [none/use name] - 1.0yr
It's a European socdem party, it's been liberal for a hundred years, give or take.
27
Diva (she/her) - 1.0yr
It's uncanny how you can never expect anything good to come from social democrats.
They actually cut it down quite a bit from what it was a grassroots law with support of politicians. And it was possible amidst the inner confusion of PSOE itself, with its transphobe "feminism" wings taking positions inside the party. There was a gap of possibility between the two discourses:
::: spoiler transphobe discourse representation
"we are trans-friendly as long as it's a secondary issue and you don't threaten the binary status quo" and this "trans women with penis are trying to erase us women and must not enter women toiltets"
:::
Also, one of the "successful" cuts was against non-binary people.
2
CoolerOpposide [she/her] - 1.0yr
Lesser of two evils moment
16
HiddenLayer555 - 1.0yr
Social Democracy != Socialist in the same way National Socialist != Socialist
Social democrats are 100% capitalists, they share almost no common values with socialism. As others have mentioned in this thread, social democrats are concerned with how the capitalist machinery and the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie can be maintained.
This article repeatedly calling them socialists is nothing short of journalistic malpractice. They're smearing the wrong ideology which was their intent.
12
kernelle @lemmy.world - 1.0yr
Ignorant passerby here, and genuinely want to change my mind, but how exactly is it fair for a trans person to compete against a biologically female person?
If we go back to the original reason for this sexist devide, it stems from a fundamental biological difference between two genders. How we identify ourselves has little impact on these biological differences no?
Furthermore I was listening to a podcast recently and they were talking about how the greatest female tennisplayer to have ever lived is would be ranked 2 or 3 thousand in a unisex world ranking. Seeing a worldrecord being set by someone working within the confines of the female body is impressive, seeing that same record broken by someone without the same constraints just devalues the other persons achievement.
7
finderscult - 1.0yr
So a few things;
A) on the professional level sports ain't about fair. It's about who has the biggest natural advantage and enough money and time to develop the skills to make use of that advantage. Take the Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps who has genetic mutations, plural, that mean we're likely to never see anyone ever break his records.
Now that's just the professional level, and a less than professional level sports are about fun, not fairness; and in a team game it's about teaching social skills over fun.
B) post bottom-surgery on hrt trans people, either main direction, have no biological advantages. In mixed leagues there are trans women that are far below cis women, and there are trans men far below cis men. This scare mongering that trans women specifically would have this massive advantage simply isn't represented in the real world where trans people have competed with cis people directly.
C) You want the secret to athleticism? It's not sex, it's t level. Testosterone is literally the magic key for sports. Trans women that no longer produce as large amounts of t (see. Above) consistently under perform cis women with high natural t levels. To preempt this as well, bone density isn't fixed. The Joe Rogan scare mongering on women's boxing is that trans women supposedly have higher bone density than cis women. This can be true, sometimes, but most often it's not. Estrogen attacks bone density, and does so ridiculously quickly when you have elevated levels from any source. It takes just 3 years on average for your bone density to drastically change when your hormones balance changes.
D) this type of discrimination leads to false accusations, harassment and death threats more than preserves any integrity in sports. The Olympic boxer Imane khelif is a cis woman. XX. This trans hysteria has tainted her win, because she doesn't look woman enough, whatever that means. Many cis women that don't fit the local stereotype of "woman" are harassed because of people freaking themselves out about the trans Boogeyman. This type of harm outweighs any and all harm to sports, period.
19
Norah (pup/it/she) - 1.0yr
B) post bottom-surgery on hrt trans people, either main direction, have no biological advantages.
I've never before heard of this need for bottom surgery to even out any biological advantages. Can you explain more, or provide a link to some more info?
6
Catoblepas @lemmy.blahaj.zone - 1.0yr
Equating transgender women with cisgender men is biologically inaccurate.
The tests assessed body composition, lung function, cardiopulmonary exercise testing, strength and lower body power.
Among the results was a determination that the trans women athletes had decreased lung function compared to the cis women athletes.
In addition, the bone density of the trans women athletes was found to be equivalent to that of the cis women. Bone density is linked to muscle strength.
The researchers say their findings “reveal notable disparities in fat mass, fat-free mass, laboratory sports performance measures and hand-grip strength measures between cisgender male and transgender female athletes.
“These differences underscore the inadequacy of using cisgender male athletes as proxies for transgender women athletes.”
17
TropicalDingdong @lemmy.world - 1.0yr
The broader issue is discrimination, and if one class of people should be allowed to be singled out and discriminated against.
14
LaLuzDelSol @lemmy.world - 1.0yr
Isn't that the whole point of women's sports though? To exclude a class of people (men) so that others (women) have a chance to compete on their own?
6
kernelle @lemmy.world - 1.0yr
For sure, I am very aware of the overlying issue here. And let it be known that I have always been supportive of the movement.
0
emergencyfood @sh.itjust.works - 1.0yr
Two points:
Top-level sports isn't fair. Most famous athletes are outliers in terms of height, weight, muscle mass, etc. Some, like Phelps, have genetic or developmental differences that give them a pretty significant advantage.
I must admit that the legal definition of 'transwoman' varies from country to country. In India, where I live, a person can legally change their gender without any medical intervention, and such people might have a physical advantage over cis-women. But in the vast majority of countries, they have to take hormones and / or do surgical procedures that reshape their body to be more 'feminine'. Once they do that, they have no significant advantage over cis-women.
6
Cowbee [he/they] - 1.0yr
Social Democrats and highly reactionary tendencies, who ever could have guessed? Objectively the moderate wing of fascism. Who knew that adopting leftist aesthetics to maintain Imperialism and Capitalism via concessions is a tendency of transphobes?
Diva in transgender
Spain’s Socialists to ban trans women from female sports
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/03/spains-socialists-ban-trans-women-from-female-sports/Pathetic display from so-called socialists
Trans rights are Humans Rights
Disgusting,
Who will betray us? Social Democrats.
Wer hat uns verraten? Die sozialdemokraten. Wer war mit dabei? Die grüne Partei
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0xkvw-u3s
No one is free until everyone is free
Disgusting. There is no liberation without trans liberation.
Social democracy is the left wing of fascism
lmao what
Social democracy and social democrats are more focused on maintenance of the current society than on fundamentally changing it, and the most critical part of the current society is the domination of one economic class (the ruling class, bourgeois class, whatever you want to call it). This party, as a social democratic party and not a revolutionary socialist party, is more interested in the maintenance of the gains they've made while not challenging the fundamentals of bourgeois class rule. Necessarily though, that means they'll abandon trans people like us, so this makes sense in a sad way. Much like how liberals and social democrats will talk about their lofty goals, but ultimately cooperate and work with fascists and fascism; when revolutionary changes are taken off the table, backsliding is inevitable.
Hasn’t their socialist party been more neoliberal for a while?
It's a European socdem party, it's been liberal for a hundred years, give or take.
It's uncanny how you can never expect anything good to come from social democrats.
It's surprising because last year, they actually did pass a good law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_Trans
They actually cut it down quite a bit from what it was a grassroots law with support of politicians. And it was possible amidst the inner confusion of PSOE itself, with its transphobe "feminism" wings taking positions inside the party. There was a gap of possibility between the two discourses:
::: spoiler transphobe discourse representation
"we are trans-friendly as long as it's a secondary issue and you don't threaten the binary status quo" and this "trans women with penis are trying to erase us women and must not enter women toiltets" :::
And some sources: actually PSOE tried to cut it down a lot, but faced too much opposition mostly in the streets, and defended by the equality minister of the more leftist then-coalition party Unidas Podemos. https://www.elsaltodiario.com/ley-trans/psoe-asume-no-puede-recortar-ley-trans-aprobación-dictamen-sin-enmiendas
Also, one of the "successful" cuts was against non-binary people.
Lesser of two evils moment
Social Democracy != Socialist in the same way National Socialist != Socialist
Social democrats are 100% capitalists, they share almost no common values with socialism. As others have mentioned in this thread, social democrats are concerned with how the capitalist machinery and the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie can be maintained.
This article repeatedly calling them socialists is nothing short of journalistic malpractice. They're smearing the wrong ideology which was their intent.
Ignorant passerby here, and genuinely want to change my mind, but how exactly is it fair for a trans person to compete against a biologically female person?
If we go back to the original reason for this sexist devide, it stems from a fundamental biological difference between two genders. How we identify ourselves has little impact on these biological differences no?
Furthermore I was listening to a podcast recently and they were talking about how the greatest female tennisplayer to have ever lived is would be ranked 2 or 3 thousand in a unisex world ranking. Seeing a worldrecord being set by someone working within the confines of the female body is impressive, seeing that same record broken by someone without the same constraints just devalues the other persons achievement.
So a few things;
A) on the professional level sports ain't about fair. It's about who has the biggest natural advantage and enough money and time to develop the skills to make use of that advantage. Take the Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps who has genetic mutations, plural, that mean we're likely to never see anyone ever break his records.
Now that's just the professional level, and a less than professional level sports are about fun, not fairness; and in a team game it's about teaching social skills over fun.
B) post bottom-surgery on hrt trans people, either main direction, have no biological advantages. In mixed leagues there are trans women that are far below cis women, and there are trans men far below cis men. This scare mongering that trans women specifically would have this massive advantage simply isn't represented in the real world where trans people have competed with cis people directly.
C) You want the secret to athleticism? It's not sex, it's t level. Testosterone is literally the magic key for sports. Trans women that no longer produce as large amounts of t (see. Above) consistently under perform cis women with high natural t levels. To preempt this as well, bone density isn't fixed. The Joe Rogan scare mongering on women's boxing is that trans women supposedly have higher bone density than cis women. This can be true, sometimes, but most often it's not. Estrogen attacks bone density, and does so ridiculously quickly when you have elevated levels from any source. It takes just 3 years on average for your bone density to drastically change when your hormones balance changes.
D) this type of discrimination leads to false accusations, harassment and death threats more than preserves any integrity in sports. The Olympic boxer Imane khelif is a cis woman. XX. This trans hysteria has tainted her win, because she doesn't look woman enough, whatever that means. Many cis women that don't fit the local stereotype of "woman" are harassed because of people freaking themselves out about the trans Boogeyman. This type of harm outweighs any and all harm to sports, period.
I've never before heard of this need for bottom surgery to even out any biological advantages. Can you explain more, or provide a link to some more info?
Equating transgender women with cisgender men is biologically inaccurate.
The broader issue is discrimination, and if one class of people should be allowed to be singled out and discriminated against.
Isn't that the whole point of women's sports though? To exclude a class of people (men) so that others (women) have a chance to compete on their own?
For sure, I am very aware of the overlying issue here. And let it be known that I have always been supportive of the movement.
Two points:
Top-level sports isn't fair. Most famous athletes are outliers in terms of height, weight, muscle mass, etc. Some, like Phelps, have genetic or developmental differences that give them a pretty significant advantage.
I must admit that the legal definition of 'transwoman' varies from country to country. In India, where I live, a person can legally change their gender without any medical intervention, and such people might have a physical advantage over cis-women. But in the vast majority of countries, they have to take hormones and / or do surgical procedures that reshape their body to be more 'feminine'. Once they do that, they have no significant advantage over cis-women.
Social Democrats and highly reactionary tendencies, who ever could have guessed? Objectively the moderate wing of fascism. Who knew that adopting leftist aesthetics to maintain Imperialism and Capitalism via concessions is a tendency of transphobes?