Has there been any talk of defederating Meta/Threads?
The Mastodon instances that I'm a member of have all preemptively defederated and I am very supportive. Just occurred to me we could still see the threads folks over here. What do you guys think? How does this instance feel about Meta?
We have completely blocked and defederated from threads given the uncontrolled transphobia taking place there
13
CoachDom - 2.5yr
Weird, when I go into Instances, it only shows lemmygrad and exploding heads in the Blocked Instances. Threads.net is still in the Linked Instances column. Is this correct?
2
Ada - 2.5yr
That was the hacker having fun. Fixed now
3
LeGaosaure - 2.5yr
I can't remember in which community I saw the link to this article, so I'll add it there just in case given it's very relevant: How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse) (TL;DR: it already happened several times, by having the big corpo enter the network as the first step)
I'm personally in favour of defederating from/blocking everything owned/operated by Meta.
46
winterayars @sh.itjust.works - 2.5yr
That's an excellent article and good warning.
2
‘Leigh 🏳️⚧️ - 2.5yr
I haven’t seen any discussion of it here, but I’m all in favour of preemptive blocking. Meta/FB/IG cannot and must not be trusted to be a good fediverse citizen (government? instance-nation? I’m not sure how my own metaphor should work. 😆). Give an inch, they’ll take a mile.
41
patchwork - 2.5yr
yeah... just finished preemptively defederating my personal instance from threads, and from any instance that seems to want to federate with Meta. hoping we follow a similar tack here
24
transgwender - 2.5yr
Yeah, I would prefer if this place just pre-emptively defederates Threads. Since while unlikely to be able to really view lemmy posts properly, I still rather it not be able to be seen at all. I dont want them to embrace extend extinguish and so need to pre-emptively prevent that.
20
Rozaŭtuno - 2.5yr
I don't want anything Zuck made to get anywhere near my data. We should defederate and never look back.
20
oryx @lemmy.world - 2.5yr
My eloquent thoughts of "fuck Meta" should sum it up quite nicely.
15
miles - 2.5yr
i really don't care about whatever commercial potential could exist there, id prefer to avoid interacting with meta as much as possible
13
Paige (she/her) - 2.5yr
I assume the plan is the same for Lemmy as it is for Calckey
Edit:
13
Ada - 2.5yr
I assume the plan is the same for Lemmy as it is for Calckey
Yep! We're mirroring block lists between the two instances
4
DevCat @lemmy.world - 2.5yr
It would be nice to see meta's TOS concerning federation first. If it's not egregious, like Facebook, it would be good to volunteer an instance to connect with them, similar to putting a toe in the water.
I've just read through the Mastodon/Threads FAQ, and, so far, I'm ok with it.
My biggest problem with that blog post is Eugene seems convinced that Mastodon's brand is sufficient enough to prevent EEE. I really think he is missing the fact that his own distaste for fairly popular features makes Mastodon fairly easy to poach users from.
17
Norah (pup/it/she) - 2.5yr
What sort of features? I haven’t really used Mastodon as I was never much for Twitter.
4
raktheundead - 2.5yr
Quote toots are the obvious one (although full disclosure: I don't like them either). Some instances and alternative Fediverse servers have a maximum character count substantially greater than that of Mastodon's default.
3
JakenVeina @vlemmy.net - 2.5yr
Quote toots
Yeah, I'mm'a need you to elaborate on that one.
1
raktheundead - 2.5yr
Twitter has this thing where you can retweet something and add your own context to it. Eugen has resisted adding this to Mastodon for a long time, although I understand that it's in the works now, citing the tendency for the feature to be used as a way of getting one's followers to pile on somebody else's post. On the other hand, some communities have cited this as a very important way of how they've used the birdsite, although I don't understand how exactly and don't wish to mischaracterise their arguments.
2
Norah (pup/it/she) - 2.5yr
See that’s one of the few things I know about Mastodon. They’re called Toots instead of Tweets. Why though, I could not tell you.
2
Norah (pup/it/she) - 2.5yr
I can see keeping the character count low potentially having a technical advantage in terms of propagation time for posts.
I think I know what you were trying to post but the image didn't attach.
8
MiscreantMouse - 2.5yr
Weird, and thanks for letting me know, must be an issue of sharing between servers... I can see the pic from my side at this address but I just got notified about your comment, 8h after you posted it
1
solarvector @lemmy.fmhy.ml - 2.5yr
TOS can change at their whim. Even if the TOS started out decent it would change as soon as they were established. Severing threads once the user base is entrenched would be much more difficult than not allowing federation from the start.
2
Jelly - 2.5yr
I seem to be on the minority, but while we should be very skeptical of meta, I don't think we should preemptively defederate. I think there is a place for a "commercial" fediverse product because there will always be people who just want to stick to known brands. It could work as a nice intermediary or introduction for people who can then join a non-commercial instance. The main concern imo is what kind of data they will (or can?) mine from users on other iterations. If they just focus on data mining from their own users, I vote to stay federated.
7
kukkurovaca - 2.5yr
If they get into the lemmy space, the risk is that we'll wind up with a bunch of big / important communities hosted on their servers, making it harder down the road to defederate from them. Would be easy for it to snowball into the embrace, extend, exterminate paradigm, in a way much easier than on Mastodon, where nobody can control a hashtag.
21
spaduf - 2.5yr
I honestly think the bigger risk is corporate incentivized cultural homogeneity. Kind of like we saw with reddit and all of the astroturfing that goes on over there.
13
PopularUsername @lemmy.world - 2.5yr
Honestly sounds like paranoid ramblings, never heard of this EEE thing before and now it's as though this is a well known phenomenon. All successful open-source projects will interact with and be used by commercial entities. If it's superior, others will use it, and others will use it to make money. If the network is not currently resilient enough to be able to incorporate the capitalists (crony or other otherwise) then at what point will it? This excuse will always exist. An open source project should be able to lean into this and be able to navigate it, rather than segregate like some wimpy monopolist.
3
iso - 2.5yr
The technology is open-source, the community is not. If we open the community to the corpos, we, as the community, will suddenly be part of the financial success of said corpos. They will take our data for their own use, and our interactions will make them money as well through engagement via their own interfaces.
They can use the Fediverse technology as much as they want, but I'm heavily against them using my personal data.
3
katy ✨ - 2.5yr
Torn because I like seeing the bigger people (ok mostly just the Crit Role cast) I used to follow on Twitter without using Twitter but also the fact that there's no moderation and there's already people posting genocidal threats against trans people...
7
JakenVeina @vlemmy.net - 2.5yr
It depends on how well they can be trusted with having access to all the data we would be sharing with them.
Since the answer for "how much can we trust Meta with any amount of data" is "not at all", that's an easy "defederate immediately".
spaduf in main
Has there been any talk of defederating Meta/Threads?
The Mastodon instances that I'm a member of have all preemptively defederated and I am very supportive. Just occurred to me we could still see the threads folks over here. What do you guys think? How does this instance feel about Meta?
EDIT: Admin response her https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/728123
We have completely blocked and defederated from threads given the uncontrolled transphobia taking place there
Weird, when I go into Instances, it only shows lemmygrad and exploding heads in the Blocked Instances. Threads.net is still in the Linked Instances column. Is this correct?
That was the hacker having fun. Fixed now
I can't remember in which community I saw the link to this article, so I'll add it there just in case given it's very relevant: How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse) (TL;DR: it already happened several times, by having the big corpo enter the network as the first step)
I'm personally in favour of defederating from/blocking everything owned/operated by Meta.
That's an excellent article and good warning.
I haven’t seen any discussion of it here, but I’m all in favour of preemptive blocking. Meta/FB/IG cannot and must not be trusted to be a good fediverse citizen (government? instance-nation? I’m not sure how my own metaphor should work. 😆). Give an inch, they’ll take a mile.
yeah... just finished preemptively defederating my personal instance from threads, and from any instance that seems to want to federate with Meta. hoping we follow a similar tack here
Yeah, I would prefer if this place just pre-emptively defederates Threads. Since while unlikely to be able to really view lemmy posts properly, I still rather it not be able to be seen at all. I dont want them to embrace extend extinguish and so need to pre-emptively prevent that.
I don't want anything Zuck made to get anywhere near my data. We should defederate and never look back.
My eloquent thoughts of "fuck Meta" should sum it up quite nicely.
i really don't care about whatever commercial potential could exist there, id prefer to avoid interacting with meta as much as possible
I assume the plan is the same for Lemmy as it is for Calckey
Edit:
Yep! We're mirroring block lists between the two instances
It would be nice to see meta's TOS concerning federation first. If it's not egregious, like Facebook, it would be good to volunteer an instance to connect with them, similar to putting a toe in the water.
I've just read through the Mastodon/Threads FAQ, and, so far, I'm ok with it.
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/
My biggest problem with that blog post is Eugene seems convinced that Mastodon's brand is sufficient enough to prevent EEE. I really think he is missing the fact that his own distaste for fairly popular features makes Mastodon fairly easy to poach users from.
What sort of features? I haven’t really used Mastodon as I was never much for Twitter.
Quote toots are the obvious one (although full disclosure: I don't like them either). Some instances and alternative Fediverse servers have a maximum character count substantially greater than that of Mastodon's default.
Yeah, I'mm'a need you to elaborate on that one.
Twitter has this thing where you can retweet something and add your own context to it. Eugen has resisted adding this to Mastodon for a long time, although I understand that it's in the works now, citing the tendency for the feature to be used as a way of getting one's followers to pile on somebody else's post. On the other hand, some communities have cited this as a very important way of how they've used the birdsite, although I don't understand how exactly and don't wish to mischaracterise their arguments.
See that’s one of the few things I know about Mastodon. They’re called Toots instead of Tweets. Why though, I could not tell you.
I can see keeping the character count low potentially having a technical advantage in terms of propagation time for posts.
This is what the water is like, do you want that here?
I think I know what you were trying to post but the image didn't attach.
Weird, and thanks for letting me know, must be an issue of sharing between servers... I can see the pic from my side at this address but I just got notified about your comment, 8h after you posted it
TOS can change at their whim. Even if the TOS started out decent it would change as soon as they were established. Severing threads once the user base is entrenched would be much more difficult than not allowing federation from the start.
I seem to be on the minority, but while we should be very skeptical of meta, I don't think we should preemptively defederate. I think there is a place for a "commercial" fediverse product because there will always be people who just want to stick to known brands. It could work as a nice intermediary or introduction for people who can then join a non-commercial instance. The main concern imo is what kind of data they will (or can?) mine from users on other iterations. If they just focus on data mining from their own users, I vote to stay federated.
If they get into the lemmy space, the risk is that we'll wind up with a bunch of big / important communities hosted on their servers, making it harder down the road to defederate from them. Would be easy for it to snowball into the embrace, extend, exterminate paradigm, in a way much easier than on Mastodon, where nobody can control a hashtag.
I honestly think the bigger risk is corporate incentivized cultural homogeneity. Kind of like we saw with reddit and all of the astroturfing that goes on over there.
Honestly sounds like paranoid ramblings, never heard of this EEE thing before and now it's as though this is a well known phenomenon. All successful open-source projects will interact with and be used by commercial entities. If it's superior, others will use it, and others will use it to make money. If the network is not currently resilient enough to be able to incorporate the capitalists (crony or other otherwise) then at what point will it? This excuse will always exist. An open source project should be able to lean into this and be able to navigate it, rather than segregate like some wimpy monopolist.
The technology is open-source, the community is not. If we open the community to the corpos, we, as the community, will suddenly be part of the financial success of said corpos. They will take our data for their own use, and our interactions will make them money as well through engagement via their own interfaces.
They can use the Fediverse technology as much as they want, but I'm heavily against them using my personal data.
Torn because I like seeing the bigger people (ok mostly just the Crit Role cast) I used to follow on Twitter without using Twitter but also the fact that there's no moderation and there's already people posting genocidal threats against trans people...
It depends on how well they can be trusted with having access to all the data we would be sharing with them.
Since the answer for "how much can we trust Meta with any amount of data" is "not at all", that's an easy "defederate immediately".