I jumped ship to Librewolf a year and a half ago (after seeing Mozilla steal people's data and sell it to advertisers), and I'm pretty fucking thankful for that. For anyone looking to leave Mozilla to rot, I highly recommend it.
43
self @awful.systems - 17hr
how are the defaults for librewolf? I’m considering switching but I’m hearing mixed things about the defaults occasionally breaking sites. waterfox seems pretty good too, but I don’t see it packaged as frequently as librewolf.
8
smiletolerantly @awful.systems - 15hr
Not the person you replied to, but I also switched to Librewolf a couple of months ago, also greatly enjoy it. Here's a link to my nix config where Librewolf gets made to behave a little closer to default Firefox in terms of usability. Honestly not too bad!
10
L3ft_F13ld! - 16hr
The defaults are pretty strict, but most of the page-breaking stuff can be changed in the LibreWolf settings and each one has a description which usually contains a link to a wiki article detailing why you'd want to change it or think twice before changing it.
9
blakestacey @awful.systems - 14hr
My only difficulty with LibreWolf on Ubuntu was getting it to be the default browser (it didn't show up in the list of options). Turns out xdg-settings set default-web-browser librewolf.desktop on the command line did the trick.
7
ebu - 3hr
i'll go against the grain here: Librewolfs's defaults are firmly "meh" for me. still an improvement over the "what the fuck" that's happening in Firefox.
pros: nixs the annoying Pocket / AI / "suggested" nonsense by default. no annoying extras.
neutrals: Firefox Sync is off, but one click and a restart to turn back on. reasonable for a non-Mozilla project. no cookies saved by default might be annoying for some, but you can add exceptions right from the URL bar and i only have a dozen or so of those set for various sites. gods, cohost is still in that list...
cons: ResistFingerprinting is IMHO way overkill and breaks nice things like automatic dark modes just for preserving privacy in the 0.001% of cases where browser fingerprinting matters. same as WebGL being off by default -- i just don't need that kind of protection
i still recommend it. Disable ResistFingerprinting, enable WebGL, enable Firefox Sync, and decide for yourself if you want auto-clearing cookies or not. i also always enable vertical tabs because my horizontal space is a lot less constricted than my vertical. (it's a FF feature!)
5
BlueMonday1984 - 9hr
Defaults are pretty good - didn't need to do much to feel comfortable.
3
self @awful.systems - 17hr
if you’re here to recommend ladybird, tell us why you’re doing advocacy for that trash fire in spite of the well-sourced, ah, downsides pointed out in article and video linked from the OP.
same for brave. I don’t give a fuck if privacyguides told you it was the goodest browser.
if you’re here to advocate for ladybird or brave and haven’t read the article in the OP, fuck off. don’t come here pretending to discuss something you haven’t read.
37
blakestacey @awful.systems - 17hr
And if you're here to report the mods for rudeness, lolz
17
self @awful.systems - 17hr
ahahaha delicious
13
Soyweiser @awful.systems - 10hr
On the subject of Brave:
https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/1j1pq7b/list_of_brave_browser_controversies/ it really has a little bit to many controversies. (And the list is downplaying some of it, the wikipedia clone added wasn't just some random one, it is was the one created by the alt right, neo-nazi Vox Day. Addition of which by the CEO should be enough to not want to use the browser at all).
12
self @awful.systems - 1hr
important addendum: your reason for advocating for shit browsers owned by terrible people will be read out loud in the clown voice it deserves
4
bitjunkie @lemmy.world - 6hr
I did like the part where the orcs attacked the Kremlin, though
1
jaschop @awful.systems - 16hr
The era of useful Silicon Valley Non-Profits seems to be fizzling out. I wonder how long Signal is going to hold out...
18
jaschop @awful.systems - 16hr
(Those are my 2 reference points, if I'm ignorant of some cool org let me know.)
10
kinsnik @lemmy.world - 6hr
Wikipedia is still doing good
Which is why there has been some push to undermine it lately. I have noticed ai bro calling it deprecated by chatgpt, or musk's grokipedia
5
2xfo - 4hr
@kinsnik@jaschop
How are they gonna depreciate the expertise they need to cannibalize?
These people are not serious thinkers, or, at least they assume we aren't
3
2xfo - 4hr
@kinsnik@jaschop
I've tagged someone here and i have no idea how it happened 🙃
2
JeeBaiChow @lemmy.world - 17hr
Move. I'm trying waterfox atm
15
Statick - 7hr
I'm doing the same, and I gotta say, I'm really liking the small differences in the UI on both android and desktop.
The popup menu on Android is way better.
The customization for the tabs/highlights on desktop are great.
Subtle differences, but I appreciate the options nonetheless.
3
AllNewTypeFace @leminal.space - 21hr
Presumably, if Firefox version N breaks ad-blocking, someone can make a hard fork of version N-1. Security patches, upgrades to OS support and things like new CSS/HTML features can be cherry-picked or reimplemented to it, though Firefox updates in general will not be admitted, as it’s a hard fork (in the way that LibreOffice or MariaDB is). At worst, Firefox will actively make it hard to do this, closing their source or changing their licence to one which prohibits it, requiring any updates to be reimplemented clean-room style, which will slow things down, though if the alternative is actively enshittified, it’s the least-bad option.
15
Sailor Sega Saturn - 3hr
The good news is it generally isn't necessary to reverse engineer browser behavior when writing a browser. Since it's mostly fairly standardized, there's a decent test suite, and the major browsers are all open source.
There are a lot of specifications because browsers have been around for decades and Chromium keeps implementing stuff, and it can be hard to find enough programmers to write all of them / catch up from a fresh start
This is a somewhat unstable situation; if we lose even a single major browser engine it's easy to imagine Chrome maybe not bothering with standardization and just telling people to read the blog posts and code.
Web pages will do nonsense like break themselves if you provide a User-Agent string they don't like. Mozilla has an ongoing compatibility effort where they sometimes have to override the UA string for specific pages. So less popular browsers are already playing from a disadvantageous position.
5
Seminar2250 @awful.systems - 20hr
I used Firefox for largely political reasons (summarized as "Google needs a competitor"), but it was becoming harder and harder to justify. Eventually, I just switched to a Chromium-based browser. I will say that, as an almost-good-enough solution until I wake up from this nightmare to a functioning Servo (🙏🙏🙏) , DNS level ad blocking (using Mullvad's DNS servers) + uBlock Origin Lite (filtering mode set to "complete") has been sufficient for me. It even blocks Spotify ads. I think it blocks YouTube ads as well, although I barely watch YouTube on my browser.
Ungoogled Chromium supports MV2 extensions and seems like a good choice if Firefox becomes unusable or you get fed up. I use Trivalent, a security hardened Chromium-based browser, but it may be tough to install if you aren't on Secureblue. Also it only supports MV3 extensions.
this shit is so fucking frustrating, just leave our browsers alone. we want security updates, not an unethically sourced bullshit-and-vulnerability-generator stapled onto the biggest attack surface on our fucking machine
13
the_weez - 19hr
Unfortunately I don't think Servo is going to be a full browser anytime soon. They are working on a browser engine that others can embed into their applications. Presumably somebody could use that engine to build a browser, but I'm not aware of any projects working towards that right now.
Personally I'm using FF with most of this crap disabled, holding out for Ladybird.
3
self @awful.systems - 17hr
why are you holding out for a browser that the OP correctly calls out as being developed by a believer in white replacement conspiracy theories who also vibe codes his browser?
actually don’t answer that, don’t fucking post here unless you’ve read the article
21
TheAsianDonKnots - 21hr
Turn it off?
11
self @awful.systems - 21hr
I’ll fucking turn you off
31
theparadox @lemmy.world - 10hr
It's cumbersome to do so and it turns itself back on with every update.
4
sc_griffith @awful.systems - 20hr
maybe my favorite pivot to ai article yet, definitely top three at least. wonderful work
10
sc_griffith @awful.systems - 20hr
small typo.
So guess what Mozilla did? When you update Firefox, tt re-enables the AI! And if you disable the AI again, it re-enables it again next update! Choose correctly, user!
"tt" should be "it"
9
ekZepp - 5hr
Just pick one - All Fox functionality without bloatware
I think I already said this but you're not making me use something called "Floorp" even if it's the last piece of software in the world. Just come on.
4
blakestacey @awful.systems - 1hr
I used Floorp for a while. (The search engine that dominated the industry was named for a child's nonsense-babble word for 10^100; nobody has a leg to stand on here.) It had a rare but persistent (and thus difficult to diagnose) problem of crashing my laptop hard when opening a private-mode window. Also, they're planning to incorporate AI on an "opt-in" basis instead of rejecting it on moral grounds.
4
figjam @midwest.social - 46min
So thats a no on "Floorp" then. Good
3
V0ldek @awful.systems - 40min
The search engine that dominated the industry was named for a child’s nonsense-babble word for 10^100;
And how did that work out in the long term? There were warning signs!
2
dwraf_of_ignorance - 17hr
Go to some fork of either firefox or chromium. Then jump ship to ladybird when its ready
5
self @awful.systems - 17hr
tell us more about how you didn’t read the article or watch the video
specifically tell us how you missed ladybird’s developer being a fascist who’s already vibe coding the worthless fucking thing
actually no, maybe just don’t fucking post here
20
Evinceo @awful.systems - 15hr
Why would anyone name a browser after Ronald Reagan's wife anyway
uh have you tried xydfgq-blurble browser it's my home brew fork of chromium and firefox i call it "chromefox" which is also my fursona
thinking of changing the name to something lighthearted, marketable and non-objectionable like "GNU-Scrotum"
i am the only maintainer and i keep up with 110% of security issues
we are not in the android store as the oppressive statists at google said that if i ever switched on this uh "piece of shit" in a built up area theyd cut my nuts off, but
ignore the FUD about chromefox spilling your bank account and leaking your tastes in hentai and fucking your cat it's all LIES FILTHY LIES by THAT BITCH ANDREW he is SUCH an asshole
anyway free software stallman was right peace out
8
fullsquare @awful.systems - 9hr
what have the furries done to you
5
ebu - 1hr
we demonstrably have a better grasp of consent than the (rest of the) tech industry at large
2
swlabr @awful.systems - 11hr
Chromefox: the Sonichu of FOSS
5
TheAgeOfSuperboredom @lemmy.ca - 21hr
This feels a little sensational. While I'm disappointed the new CEO wants to waste time on it, as long as we can turn it odd its not terrible. And its still the only real competition to Chrome. All the forks still rely on Mozilla's work, though I would love to see that situation improve.
5
self @awful.systems - 20hr
after a decade+ of Mozilla dropping the ball on purpose and violating user consent, thank fuck we’ve got you! somebody needed to pointlessly restate the latter half of the video while carrying water for the millionaire CEO of a nonprofit grift and I certainly as fuck would rather fucking die
21
BlameTheAntifa @lemmy.world - 5hr
Librewolf or Waterfox.
Orion will also be getting a Linux version.
4
inkzombie - 7hr
Is Vivaldi still good?
3
Seminar2250 @awful.systems - 7hr
The least-worst of the Chrome reskins is Vivaldi, which has no AI. It has its own adblocker, but it’s not as good a blocker as FIrefox with uBlock Origin. And Vivaldi’s not open source. But they’re relatively non-evil.
from your profile and post history you appear to be, and I can’t believe I’m typing these words, a pro-Brave anti-Mozilla gimmick account. go the fuck outside.
13
jnod4 @lemmy.ca - 9hr
I'd choose to never use Internet again than use a chromium browser
dgerard in techtakes @awful.systems
Firefox browser falls to AI. What do we do now?
https://pivot-to-ai.com/2025/12/23/firefox-browser-falls-to-ai-what-do-we-do-now/where ‘absolutely not’ means ‘maybe later’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c40irxnC_qM&list=UU9rJrMVgcXTfa8xuMnbhAEA - video
https://pivottoai.libsyn.com/20251223-firefox-browser-falls-to-ai-what-do-we-do-now - podcast
time: 9 min 39 sec
you_were_the_chosen_one.gifI jumped ship to Librewolf a year and a half ago (after seeing Mozilla steal people's data and sell it to advertisers), and I'm pretty fucking thankful for that. For anyone looking to leave Mozilla to rot, I highly recommend it.
how are the defaults for librewolf? I’m considering switching but I’m hearing mixed things about the defaults occasionally breaking sites. waterfox seems pretty good too, but I don’t see it packaged as frequently as librewolf.
Not the person you replied to, but I also switched to Librewolf a couple of months ago, also greatly enjoy it. Here's a link to my nix config where Librewolf gets made to behave a little closer to default Firefox in terms of usability. Honestly not too bad!
The defaults are pretty strict, but most of the page-breaking stuff can be changed in the LibreWolf settings and each one has a description which usually contains a link to a wiki article detailing why you'd want to change it or think twice before changing it.
My only difficulty with LibreWolf on Ubuntu was getting it to be the default browser (it didn't show up in the list of options). Turns out
xdg-settings set default-web-browser librewolf.desktopon the command line did the trick.i'll go against the grain here: Librewolfs's defaults are firmly "meh" for me. still an improvement over the "what the fuck" that's happening in Firefox.
pros: nixs the annoying Pocket / AI / "suggested" nonsense by default. no annoying extras.
neutrals: Firefox Sync is off, but one click and a restart to turn back on. reasonable for a non-Mozilla project. no cookies saved by default might be annoying for some, but you can add exceptions right from the URL bar and i only have a dozen or so of those set for various sites. gods, cohost is still in that list...
cons: ResistFingerprinting is IMHO way overkill and breaks nice things like automatic dark modes just for preserving privacy in the 0.001% of cases where browser fingerprinting matters. same as WebGL being off by default -- i just don't need that kind of protection
i still recommend it. Disable ResistFingerprinting, enable WebGL, enable Firefox Sync, and decide for yourself if you want auto-clearing cookies or not. i also always enable vertical tabs because my horizontal space is a lot less constricted than my vertical. (it's a FF feature!)
Defaults are pretty good - didn't need to do much to feel comfortable.
if you’re here to recommend ladybird, tell us why you’re doing advocacy for that trash fire in spite of the well-sourced, ah, downsides pointed out in article and video linked from the OP.
same for brave. I don’t give a fuck if privacyguides told you it was the goodest browser.
if you’re here to advocate for ladybird or brave and haven’t read the article in the OP, fuck off. don’t come here pretending to discuss something you haven’t read.
And if you're here to report the mods for rudeness, lolz
ahahaha delicious
On the subject of Brave:
https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/1j1pq7b/list_of_brave_browser_controversies/ it really has a little bit to many controversies. (And the list is downplaying some of it, the wikipedia clone added wasn't just some random one, it is was the one created by the alt right, neo-nazi Vox Day. Addition of which by the CEO should be enough to not want to use the browser at all).
important addendum: your reason for advocating for shit browsers owned by terrible people will be read out loud in the clown voice it deserves
I did like the part where the orcs attacked the Kremlin, though
The era of useful Silicon Valley Non-Profits seems to be fizzling out. I wonder how long Signal is going to hold out...
(Those are my 2 reference points, if I'm ignorant of some cool org let me know.)
Wikipedia is still doing good
Which is why there has been some push to undermine it lately. I have noticed ai bro calling it deprecated by chatgpt, or musk's grokipedia
@kinsnik @jaschop
How are they gonna depreciate the expertise they need to cannibalize?
These people are not serious thinkers, or, at least they assume we aren't
@kinsnik @jaschop
I've tagged someone here and i have no idea how it happened 🙃
Move. I'm trying waterfox atm
I'm doing the same, and I gotta say, I'm really liking the small differences in the UI on both android and desktop.
The popup menu on Android is way better.
The customization for the tabs/highlights on desktop are great.
Subtle differences, but I appreciate the options nonetheless.
Presumably, if Firefox version N breaks ad-blocking, someone can make a hard fork of version N-1. Security patches, upgrades to OS support and things like new CSS/HTML features can be cherry-picked or reimplemented to it, though Firefox updates in general will not be admitted, as it’s a hard fork (in the way that LibreOffice or MariaDB is). At worst, Firefox will actively make it hard to do this, closing their source or changing their licence to one which prohibits it, requiring any updates to be reimplemented clean-room style, which will slow things down, though if the alternative is actively enshittified, it’s the least-bad option.
The good news is it generally isn't necessary to reverse engineer browser behavior when writing a browser. Since it's mostly fairly standardized, there's a decent test suite, and the major browsers are all open source.
Though this comes with some caveats:
I used Firefox for largely political reasons (summarized as "Google needs a competitor"), but it was becoming harder and harder to justify. Eventually, I just switched to a Chromium-based browser. I will say that, as an almost-good-enough solution until I wake up from this nightmare to a functioning Servo (🙏🙏🙏) , DNS level ad blocking (using Mullvad's DNS servers) + uBlock Origin Lite (filtering mode set to "complete") has been sufficient for me. It even blocks Spotify ads. I think it blocks YouTube ads as well, although I barely watch YouTube on my browser.
Ungoogled Chromium supports MV2 extensions and seems like a good choice if Firefox becomes unusable or you get fed up. I use Trivalent, a security hardened Chromium-based browser, but it may be tough to install if you aren't on Secureblue. Also it only supports MV3 extensions.
this shit is so fucking frustrating, just leave our browsers alone. we want security updates, not an unethically sourced bullshit-and-vulnerability-generator stapled onto the biggest attack surface on our fucking machine
Unfortunately I don't think Servo is going to be a full browser anytime soon. They are working on a browser engine that others can embed into their applications. Presumably somebody could use that engine to build a browser, but I'm not aware of any projects working towards that right now. Personally I'm using FF with most of this crap disabled, holding out for Ladybird.
why are you holding out for a browser that the OP correctly calls out as being developed by a believer in white replacement conspiracy theories who also vibe codes his browser?
actually don’t answer that, don’t fucking post here unless you’ve read the article
Turn it off?
I’ll fucking turn you off
It's cumbersome to do so and it turns itself back on with every update.
maybe my favorite pivot to ai article yet, definitely top three at least. wonderful work
small typo.
"tt" should be "it"
Just pick one - All Fox functionality without bloatware
Librewolf
Waterfox
Floorp
I think I already said this but you're not making me use something called "Floorp" even if it's the last piece of software in the world. Just come on.
I used Floorp for a while. (The search engine that dominated the industry was named for a child's nonsense-babble word for 10^100; nobody has a leg to stand on here.) It had a rare but persistent (and thus difficult to diagnose) problem of crashing my laptop hard when opening a private-mode window. Also, they're planning to incorporate AI on an "opt-in" basis instead of rejecting it on moral grounds.
So thats a no on "Floorp" then. Good
And how did that work out in the long term? There were warning signs!
Go to some fork of either firefox or chromium. Then jump ship to ladybird when its ready
tell us more about how you didn’t read the article or watch the video
specifically tell us how you missed ladybird’s developer being a fascist who’s already vibe coding the worthless fucking thing
actually no, maybe just don’t fucking post here
Why would anyone name a browser after Ronald Reagan's wife anyway
Edit: facepalm
LBJ's wife, not Reagan's.
BRB starting my new browser named ThroatGoat
uh have you tried xydfgq-blurble browser it's my home brew fork of chromium and firefox i call it "chromefox" which is also my fursona
thinking of changing the name to something lighthearted, marketable and non-objectionable like "GNU-Scrotum"
i am the only maintainer and i keep up with 110% of security issues
we are not in the android store as the oppressive statists at google said that if i ever switched on this uh "piece of shit" in a built up area theyd cut my nuts off, but
ignore the FUD about chromefox spilling your bank account and leaking your tastes in hentai and fucking your cat it's all LIES FILTHY LIES by THAT BITCH ANDREW he is SUCH an asshole
anyway free software stallman was right peace out
what have the furries done to you
we demonstrably have a better grasp of consent than the (rest of the) tech industry at large
Chromefox: the Sonichu of FOSS
This feels a little sensational. While I'm disappointed the new CEO wants to waste time on it, as long as we can turn it odd its not terrible. And its still the only real competition to Chrome. All the forks still rely on Mozilla's work, though I would love to see that situation improve.
after a decade+ of Mozilla dropping the ball on purpose and violating user consent, thank fuck we’ve got you! somebody needed to pointlessly restate the latter half of the video while carrying water for the millionaire CEO of a nonprofit grift and I certainly as fuck would rather fucking die
Librewolf or Waterfox.
Orion will also be getting a Linux version.
Is Vivaldi still good?
I'll just keep not using it.
https://awful.systems/pictrs/image/224e95b0-8ff7-47ab-9536-4bbe00dfb84f.png
from your profile and post history you appear to be, and I can’t believe I’m typing these words, a pro-Brave anti-Mozilla gimmick account. go the fuck outside.
I'd choose to never use Internet again than use a chromium browser
Use LibreWolf or WaterFox and ironfox for android