Boiling lobsters while they are alive and conscious will be banned as part of a government strategy to improve animal welfare in England.
Government ministers say that “live boiling is not an acceptable killing method” for crustaceans and alternative guidance will be published.
The practice is already illegal in Switzerland, Norway and New Zealand. Animal welfare charities say that stunning lobsters with an electric gun or chilling them in cold air or ice before boiling them is more humane.
Assassassin @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 17hr
Honestly that seems pretty reasonable. Boiling things alive is pretty barbaric.
134
Drahngis @feddit.dk - 14hr
It frightens me that we can't 100% agree that boiling a living thing that feels pain, is bad.
Humans are the worst.
113
Kami - 12hr
Have you ever seen felines hunting? They are fucking psychos by your standards.
31
ameancow @lemmy.world - 7hr
Judging ourselves by what animals do is a wild take. I guess we've just all broadly stopped caring about being human sometime around when "alpha males" became a serious topic of discussion in human behavior.
31
Kami - 7hr
In case you didn't know, we are animals.
We should always keep that in mind and stop pretending "being human" is some universal thing.
9
ameancow @lemmy.world - 7hr
I've heard a lot of the world's worst people use that as an excuse to do the most horrible things, and I despair that so many people readily embrace it as a validation.
We are animals but we are different than every other animal, and we can be better and do better, and if holding yourself to a higher standard because you were born with sapience is too inconvenient, I'm sure there are some political and ideological groups out there who would love to have you.
edit: I regret spending any time responding to the obvious trolls in this post. Block and move on people. If you ever find yourself having to argue that we're better than animals, you're not arguing with someone participating in good faith.
22
Kami - 7hr
LOL so being against your perspective means validating the worst of humanity? Wow! Such arrogance...
We can "do better" from our own perspective. We are "sapient" from our own perspective.
I'm sure there are also a lot of groups of disgusting people you could fit, but how is that relevant? Is it just that you lack arguments and you resort to insulting a person that you don't know? Is this what you call being "born with sapience"?
What a petty animal you are...
5
obre @slrpnk.net - 7hr
You sound insufferable
16
Kami - 7hr
😎
2
ameancow @lemmy.world - 7hr
I don't engage with kids trying to troll, get lost.
9
Kami - 7hr
Stay safe in your bubble.
2
SkyeStarfall - 1hr
To be very crass, animals also rape other animals, and I hope to god that you will not use "but we are animals" as an argument there as well.
We are different from other animals in that we are moral agents. We can know the difference between good and bad. That makes us responsible to act upon that difference, too.
2
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 11hr
They get a free pass because they are cute.
15
D_C - 9hr
Cats are neither human, nor do they boil their kills just because they can. Cats kill, yes. Cats are murderous little fuckers, yes.
However the issue the above poster is talking about isn't about killing of whatever. Or about eating meat. Their point was about doing it in as humane a way as possible.
11
KiloGex @lemmy.world - 8hr
We don't boil lobsters just because we can, but because we cook our food.
9
Barbecue Cowboy - 8hr
Cats are neither human, nor do they boil their kills just because they can.
But, we all know they would if they could.
5
Kami - 9hr
I said felines by the way, so cats AND all others too.
Have you ever seen lions hunting their prey and eating it from its ass while it is still trying to run away?
Or playing with their prey before eventually strangling it?
That's their way of doing it, it's gruesome but it's fine.
We have our own ways of doing it too, some methods are even considerably more painless than others.
Also you should note your own use of "humane", that's a key point there. All this talk is just human specist nonsense.
Last but not least, I could even argue (as a human) that it's ridiculous to judge what killing method is acceptable (and even what is acceptable to eat) based on things like pain, or having a nervous system.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR SPECIST CRINGE ARGUMENTS! Killing a human, a lobster, a mosquito or a tomato plant is just killing, no matter what lies you tell yourself.
4
D_C - 3hr
Haha, all those words that I didn't read...and yet I still know they all amount to "I'm an angry tool".
1
Kami - 3hr
No worries, I understand that it's too much text to process for some individuals.
1
D_C - 2hr
Yeah, it's deffo that. And it's definitely not that you are an angry tool that posts rants about shit that's got nothing to do with boiling lobsters, haha.
2
Kami - 2hr
Yeah, it's deffo that. And it's definitely not that you are an angry tool that posts rants about shit that I don't understand, haha.
FIFY
1
dublet @lemmy.world - 10hr
Have you ever seen felines hunting?
Devastating scenes. CW: I'm going to eat you little fishy
Most killing involves pain, all meat requires killing.
21
thebustinater @lemmy.zip - 8hr
all meat requires killing.
Technically not true... You could amputate and eat part of an animal without killing it
6
cley_faye @lemmy.world - 13hr
Yeah. I kinda like meat, but seriously. At least make it quick and/or painless, not torture.
13
happyfullfridge @lemmy.ml - 13hr
Imagine how vegans must feel about the world lol
9
Resonosity @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 10hr
Vegans don't care about the natural world with regards to suffering caused by the natural world itself. That's just how things are.
Vegans instead are more interested in suffering caused by humans inflicted on the natural world. This suffering can be more or less wicked than what you'd find out in the wild.
Big distinction.
22
icelimit @lemmy.ml - 13hr
Inb4 plants feel just as much pain, just differently
11
Agent641 @lemmy.world - 12hr
Yeah but they are masochists and they like it.
6
icelimit @lemmy.ml - 11hr
Time to chew rocks
2
SeductiveTortoise - 11hr
You monster!
1
happyfullfridge @lemmy.ml - 5hr
In that moral framework ig fruits and veggies would be fine since the plant wants us to eat it
1
icelimit @lemmy.ml - 4hr
Pretty sure we're supposed to surgically extract the seeds after anaesthetizing the fruits whilst it's still on the tree.
1
toomanypancakes - 8hr
Pretty poorly, all things considered.
5
dreadbeef @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 12hr
which animal can 100% agree with you on that? maybe crabs but even then maybe not
2
citizensongbird @lemmy.world - 12hr
Will always be funny to me that lobsters are such an expensive delicacy at fine dining restaurants when they started out as food for extremely poor people in coastal communities. In the old days the general public viewed eating them as you would view eating a rat today.
52
exasperation @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 11hr
Oysters have made the switch between poor people food and rich people food quite a few times. Tuna has made the switch in my lifetime. It probably has something to do with how easy they are to harvest/catch when plentiful versus the results of overfishing, and how delicate the food is in the supply chain.
35
SupraMario @lemmy.world - 11hr
Bacon also, it used to be cheap as fuck. Same with chicken wings. Two of the cheapest parts of the animal, now magically nearly the most expensive.
12
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 11hr
Its both here, cooking bacon is the cheapest boneless meat I have ever seen per weight. But you can also get pretty fancy expensive bacon choices too.
6
lobut @lemmy.ca - 7hr
There's a theory that carbonara used to be a "war time" food.
4
Prior_Industry - 11hr
Give the tech bros long enough and rat will be a delicacy for the rest of us aswell
11
shittydwarf - 8hr
It always comes back to demolition man
2
Prior_Industry - 8hr
Not looking forward to the clamshells.... maybe lobster claws could be a cheap alternative?
2
SippyCup @lemmy.ml - 6hr
Lobster is only ok. I don't think I've ever had anything with lobster in it that wasn't independently good, or improved in any meaningful way with lobster.
That said, when lobster was viewed the way you're describing, it was seen as more of a pest. There was so much lobster freely available, it was literally piling up on beaches. No one was fishing for lobsters, they were just scooping them up and then making a rather revolting stew with them. That was being served to prisoners as a form of penance, meant to be bland and unstimulating. Sandy guts and all.
2
AxExRx - 5hr
While they were called 'sea rats',they werent considered quiteas bad as rats- it was common for servant's contracts to limit the number of meals lobster could be served to them for, usually 1 or 2 a week, not the hard 0 that serving rat would have been.
1
mlg @lemmy.world - 10hr
Uh, does anyone in this thread even know how to kill a lobster?
I feel like this is barely a problem, you usually slice into its head and then immediately boil to avoid any chance of rapid bacteria breakdown. I dont even know if theres any other practical method aside from boiling without slicing into the head.
Also not to be that guy, but is this really such a massive concern that the government needs to focus on right now? Seems like they are more concerned about handling lobsters than their own citizens after they labeled Palestine Action a terrorist group and had anyone supporting them arrested and charged as such.
31
slampisko @lemmy.world - 8hr
Maybe the citizens have been asking for them to deal with lobbyists and they just misheard
24
Leon - 7hr
I do think it'd be more humane to not boil lobbyists alive. We can find less grotesque ways to dispatch them.
10
titanicx @lemmy.zip - 7hr
I for one think it's highly appropriate
3
Leon - 6hr
I think boiling is a little too traditional for me. Personally I think the good old fashioned French methods cut just right, you know?
2
AxExRx - 5hr
I worked at a country club that would, occasionally, and on the hush hush for VIPS inject them still live, with a syringe of boiling butter, poaching them from the inside out. I believe that is the old fashioned French method
3
falseWhite @lemmy.world - 8hr
Killed a lobster? I've never even tasted one. Sounds like a rich people problem.
14
Barbecue Cowboy - 8hr
Lobsters used to be poor people's food. The taste is really just giant shrimp.
16
AxExRx - 5hr
1800s new England, they were refered to as sea rats, and it was a common clause in servants contracts limiting how many meals a week they could be given lobster.
3
FosterMolasses @leminal.space - 2hr
it was a common clause in servants contracts limiting how many meals a week they could be given lobster
Can you imagine, hahaa
1
Bosht @lemmy.world - 7hr
Honestly not missing much. I don't get all the fuss, plenty of other seafood that imo tastes loads better.
3
UnderpantsWeevil @lemmy.world - 6hr
Also not to be that guy, but is this really such a massive concern that the government needs to focus on right now?
Labour is flailing. They came into office with an enormous popular mandate to undo the corrupt and abusive practices of the Conservative government, then proceeded to extend and cement these same unpopular policies while engaging in all the same corrupt practices - in many cases taking money and gifts from the exact same people.
This is what they've got. Haphazardly pandering to any special interest group that won't step on the toes of a mega-donor or trip over graft being committed by another influential MP.
Seems like they are more concerned about handling lobsters than their own citizens after they labeled Palestine Action a terrorist group and had anyone supporting them arrested and charged as such.
AIPAC fully has its hooks into the Labour government, especially at the leadership level. In many ways, the sanction on boiled lobster and the sanction on Palestine Rights activists is coming from the same place. A need to crank up policing on everyone everywhere for anything that can justify a government sanction.
The UK police state is metasticizing again.
10
KiloGex @lemmy.world - 9hr
Lobsters have a decentralized nervous system, so stabbing it in the head doesn't really do anything. It's pretty much just something chefs started doing to appear to know more than the home cook. There's no scientific reason for stabbing them first.
6
Pyr - 6hr
So then not only are you still boiling them alive, but you are also causing a lot of pain by unnecessarily stabbing their face off?
5
forkDestroyer @infosec.pub - 8hr
This is how I found out that lobsters don't have a single centralized brain like humans do.
3
Railcar8095 @lemmy.world - 7hr
Lobster as Lemmy mascot when?
5
Bytemeister @lemmy.world - 6hr
This is why the correct method is splitting, where you cut the head in half down the middle and partway into the main body. Cutting the head off still leaves a significant chuck of the "brain" alive and unwell.
2
wheezy @lemmy.ml - 7hr
So, how WOULD you kill it without pain?
2
FatVegan @leminal.space - 7hr
Not at all would be fine.
10
wheezy @lemmy.ml - 6hr
Sure. But, like, is this law pointless? Because unless it bans it altogether (and the comment I replied to is correct about the pain) then it sounds like it's pointless.
People said freezing. But that just sounds like more psuedo science. Is it science based? Or is it just "people say".
4
Bytemeister @lemmy.world - 6hr
Freezing just slows them down. A lot of lobsters are caught in the Atlantic around Maine, they can handle your fridge just fine, and your freezer for a painfully long amount of time.
3
ThatGuy46475 @lemmy.world - 6hr
Give them a shot of morphine first
2
AxExRx - 5hr
Lol I could see this becoming a delicacy- lobster that gets you high when you eat it
1
AdolfSchmitler @lemmy.world - 8hr
Ikr. They stopped the lobsters from being slowly boiled alive but not their own citizens lol
4
A_Random_Idiot @lemmy.world - 4hr
Two ways to dispatch a lobster.
One is to put the knife behind the eyes, stab down and chop towards the front of the lobster, bifurcating the head.
The other is to put the lobster in the freezer for 30-45 minutes. This slows its metabolism to the point of practical death, so it doesnt feel anything when you put it in the boiling water.
second option is less..actively choppy, so i imagine most squeemish people would prefer that option.
3
janewaydidnothingwrong @lemmy.world - 4hr
oof i'd take the head chop over being rapidly frozen and then boiled, thanks
2
A_Random_Idiot @lemmy.world - 4hr
Cause you're not cold blooded, or a lobster. So you don't have the same response to it that they do.
6
janewaydidnothingwrong @lemmy.world - 4hr
Valid point but you cant prove that im not either of those things
2
BeeegScaaawyCripple - 3hr
i can't prove you're not coffee either
2
BeeegScaaawyCripple - 3hr
they also got that lobster gun that does the choppy for you if you're doing it in bulk or are squeamish
1
pilferjinx - 2hr
It's such a non issue to dispatch a lobster before throwing it into the pot using your method. The guys who are against it are just fucking assholes.
3
EndlessNightmare @reddthat.com - 3hr
focus
How much "focus" does something like this actually require?
3
rumba @lemmy.zip - 7hr
The best I know is to freeze them first, not like solid, but just for an hour or so which makes them super lethargic.
2
SippyCup @lemmy.ml - 6hr
You can just put them in the fridge. They don't need to be in the freezer.
Then drive a knife through their head. Dead before they know what's happening.
1
sqw - 4hr
i guess the moral question is whether that's arguably significantly more humane than skipping the severing step. to me it seems possibly unknowable; either way the thing does suffer the slaughter and the question is to what degree. if there's any culinary or other practical advantage to doing it, and folks believe it's more humane, why not...
0
Devial @discuss.online - 4hr
UK government caring more about lobster welfare than that of trans people.
25
EndlessNightmare @reddthat.com - 3hr
The bad thing is that these goals do not conflict with each other: they could easily do both if they wanted to.
19
𝚝𝚛𝚔 - 2hr
I don't think you're allowed to boil trans people alive either
16
allriledup [they/them] - 13hr
whoa, you mean sentient animals feel pain?? WHAT!?
Nah, the screaming in horror is just air escaping /s
18
Floodedwomb @lemmy.world - 13hr
Lobsters don't have vocal cords. Its physically impossible for them to scream.
21
qevlarr - 12hr
Ok but that isn't really the point they were making
14
CileTheSane @lemmy.ca - 8hr
That was literally a point they made.
4
qevlarr - 5hr
pushes glasses
Well akshually... 🤓
So exhausting. I can't believe we have to explain boiling animals alive is animal cruelty, against a sea of "bugs lol who cares" and joking about inconsequential details. It's sad
3
PokerChips @programming.dev - 7hr
The amount of people that are in knots trying to defend a barbaric practice is quite telling.
18
Galactose - 6hr
Chopping down plants & eating them is also barbaric.
2
w3dd1e - 3hr
Do plants feel pain the way a lobster would? I genuinely don’t know.
I do know that making an animal suffer rather than giving it a quick death is wrong.
8
Wahots @pawb.social - 28min
Do plants feel pain?
From what I've read so far, unfortunately, it seems like they might. Plants can communicate with each other and form underground resource networks with other plants, fungi, and microorganisms. Including for illness, boring bugs and pain responses. The smell of fresh cut grass is one of those warning/pain responses.
I've wanted to do some bonsai succulents, but the process towards any living thing seems cruel and painful.
1
Galactose - 2hr
Now this I can agree with.
1
janewaydidnothingwrong @lemmy.world - 4hr
Yes agreed so lets just starve then, only proper thing to do
6
pishadoot @sh.itjust.works - 4hr
Just learn to photosynthesize like that guy obviously does
6
Galactose - 3hr
Nah, you starve. You're the one who's into that stuff.
1
DupaCycki @lemmy.world - 6hr
It's just silly that this is still a thing in almost 2026. It's so obvious even Hitler banned it, and he was no animal rights activist.
18
explodicle @sh.itjust.works - 4hr
He actually was, despite his horrific treatment of human beings.
12
inb4_FoundTheVegan @lemmy.world - 3hr
More formally, on May 15, 1942, the Nazis issued an order instructing all Jews to bring all of their pets to collection points where they would be euthanized.
Of course if animals were in the care of the "wrong" human beings then they had to be killed. Fascist ideology has always, and will always, be an incoherent mess of contradictions in service of bigotry.
14
DupaCycki @lemmy.world - 4hr
Well, I'll be damned.
I'll need to read up on this.
3
demonmariner - 4hr
Hitler was a maniac and a despicable person, but I seem to remember reading that he was vegetarian and at least liked dogs. Maybe he was an animal rights activist, provided that you didn't consider humans animals.
5
BarqsHasBite - 15hr
From what I've been told lobsters will release a toxin if not killed properly. Boiling alive is/was the easiest way to do it and thus widely adopted especially at consumer level.
15
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 12hr
Quickly in the sense that bacterial growth on them becomes toxic within a far shorter time than other things we eat. Bacteria isn't growing in the 10 seconds it takes to kill them and then dump into the pot. Just don't leave them laying around for a long time.
14
shane @feddit.nl - 12hr
Apparently it's not easy to kill lobsters. They don't have a single brain that you can drive a nail through like mammals, AFAIK.
One of the researchers who showed that lobsters feel pain recommended freezing them as the best available method, but maybe it's better to just stop eating them?
Edit: the article says that electrical stunning works.
13
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 11hr
Electrical stunning isn't an option for home chefs. I have heard of chilling but not sure if that is also being banned in the UK or not, given that they would still be alive. And yeah, no idea how reliable someone is going to be in actually killing it and not just rendering it unable to move but still feeling everything.
Even if a perfect knife cut works, how precise do you need to be? The best method would be the one which is pretty easy to do successfully. Also what about other crustaceans?
7
citizensongbird @lemmy.world - 12hr
Nah, they don't release a toxin, at least not in the sense of "self-defense" that is usually meant with that phrase. After death they rot very quickly, so they do become toxic, I guess that's similar enough. My dad cooked lobsters often and he always stuck a paring knife in a very specific spot in the head right before boiling, I assume this information is about to become much more widespread to comply with these new laws.
9
hobovision @mander.xyz - 13hr
Put them on ice to slow/sleep them, then slice through the center on the head with a sharp knife.
7
rouxdoo @lemmy.world - 17hr
It's a fucking bug! Boil it and eat the shit already.
I worked at Red Lobster for a number of years as a young'un. A large part of my work in the prep kitchen initially (after I graduated from the dish ring) was to slice live Maine lobs in half to make "princess lobsters" (half a lobster with body cavity stuffed with yummy). These stupid bugs are no more sentient than a cockroach that you smash with a shoe.
Why would anyone spend even a second considering the feelings of a fucking bug?!
14
Corporal_Punishment @feddit.uk - 16hr
The science would tend to disagree with you.
All the evidence points to the fact that lobsters do feel pain in the same way humans do. As they're being boiled alive they release significant amounts of cortisol, the same as us.
Bug or not, it is sentient. If we are going to insist on eating them then we have a moral responsibility to minimise their suffering before we do.
72
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 12hr
To be fair they didn't deny it had feelings, they made it clear they don't care about their feelings.
8
xep @discuss.online - 10hr
There is no living creature, plant or animal, that doesn't have feedback systems that inform on injury and damage. It may not be in a form that we recognize as pain, but in effect that is what it is.
Nothing lives without affecting the lives of other creatures, but we can do our best to minimize suffering. For lobsters it's probably ideal to freeze or shock them, as mentioned in the article.
7
rouxdoo @lemmy.world - 16hr
Do you waffle about before taking a slipper to the roach that snuck in under your door-jamb? No, you smash that repugnant shit and scoop it up with a piece of junk mail to toss it in the toilet. That sentient bug is just not food to you. The fact that a lobster is food does not make it a more elevated being.
5
Corporal_Punishment @feddit.uk - 16hr
"The fact that a lobster is food does not make it a more elevated being"
And I never said it did. I said the fact that it has an observable and measurable pain response makes it a more elevated being.
Lobsters are sentient, the science has proven it. They might be on the lower end but they have also been shown to demonstrate a limited form of memory and intelligence when it comes to things like pain, avoiding objects that are known to cause it.
I get not caring, but mate, you sound like an absolute psychopath who takes delight in killing them.
53
gibmiser @lemmy.world - 16hr
You are missing the point dude. Boiling alive is slow torture, they are not sa....
Fuck it good luck with your reading comprehension skills
36
Mothra @mander.xyz - 16hr
I also don't waffle about a shoe on a cockroach, in fact I try my best to kill them as fast as possible and in any case will choose a shoe to spray, which takes longer. No point in making anyone or anything squirm in agony over several minutes unless I have a personal vendetta against them.
30
CileTheSane @lemmy.ca - 8hr
No, you smash that repugnant shit
Sounds like a very quick way to kill it.
I feel the need to point out that the person you're arguing with is not saying you shouldn't kill lobsters.
5
Rambomst @lemmy.world - 17hr
What if they feel every moment? Can't go out of your way for 2 minutes to potentially reduce the suffering?
35
rouxdoo @lemmy.world - 16hr
Yes, they feel every moment until the knife slices their pea-sized nerve center of a brain in half. That took about 1/2 of a second. It's done and now we can eat.
9
lando55 @lemmy.zip - 16hr
Your original comment made it seem as though you were not slicing their pea-brains in half, just boiling them alive (this was cleared up in your follow-up).
Having said that, there may be worse ways to go. In the first season of Shogun they put a guy in a large cauldron of water and slowly brought it up to a boil.
But then I remember that MrBallen story where the guy was pushed into an NYC storm drain and was steamed alive for several minutes in agony. From what I remember, steam isn't like fire where your nerves are essentially cauterized do you can't feel anything. You have to suffer through every minute of it.
Let's just agree to all show each other the courtesy of a knife to the brain.
23
falseWhite @lemmy.world - 8hr
Lobsters don't have a centralised brain. Shows just how much you know about lobsters.
No matter how many of them you have killed and cooked, that clearly doesn't make you a biology expert...
So basically everything you said, can be discarded as an uninformed garbage opinion.
6
Jimbo @pawb.social - 16hr
Bro you sound like an absolute psychopath.
If somebody is saying that to you (like right now) perhaps you should reflect on what you've said
25
Brave Little Hitachi Wand - 15hr
I've worked in restaurants, so I'm used to a certain level of psychopathising among chefs. I don't know if it's changed in the last two decades, but in that context I interpreted their comment as being slightly grumpy at being told how to do their jobs.
If they gleefully talked about using the live animal as a sex toy, for example, that would arrive in my brain as an allusion to romantic difficulties.
Just putting that out there. The whole argument looks like cultural differences to me. I don't think any chef would actually prefer animal cruelty... I did once hear a maître'd joke that cruelty makes food taste better, though.
9
queermunist she/her - 14hr
They prefer animal cruelty in the "I had to do it, so you should too!" kind of way.
12
velindora @lemmy.cafe - 14hr
Okay, so I have a guy in a chef hat fucking a lobster image in my head. Thanks….
4
Brave Little Hitachi Wand - 12hr
A spoonful of sugar, I always say
2
tidderuuf @lemmy.world - 17hr
Because people have gone just as far to the left as those to the right. Meanwhile the rest of us are just trying to live our lives with what little we have yet somehow everything we do to make our living easier is an inconvenience to those on both extremes.
3
rouxdoo @lemmy.world - 17hr
This is a left/right thing?!! WTF? This just a food thing and if you are left/righting it you are a world-class dolt!
45
funkless_eck @sh.itjust.works - 16hr
Nah, people that say this (horseshoe theory etc) are exclusively right wing and are grasping at straws to claim we're just like them.
Which we're not.
I'd even kill Nazis quickly.
31
theunknownmuncher @lemmy.world - 15hr
They believe compassion and empathy are "woke"
29
CileTheSane @lemmy.ca - 8hr
with what little we have
Like lobster.
Who will think about the poor individuals that can only afford lobster and a pot, but not a freezer?
2
qbus @lemmy.world - 14hr
Boiling lobsters is barbaric. You should steam them
13
Resonosity @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 10hr
Good change, as someone who's vegan.
We'll take what we can get
12
Lka1988 - 17hr
This doesn't kill the crab
11
Galactose - 13hr
So this is an important issue ? & not the abolition of monarchy or the age-verification act ?
10
dizzy @lemmy.ml - 12hr
Whataboutism masterclass right here
22
Galactose - 6hr
Yeah if you consider censorship to be a non-issue. Trees are living things too remember.
3
MBech @feddit.dk - 8hr
We can never do anything except the one thing you find most pressing? We have to focus 100% of every single ressource to your specific issue?
9
Galactose - 6hr
You find censorship to be not an issue ? Wow
3
MBech @feddit.dk - 5hr
If you really feel like commenting, why not answer my question instead of trying to delfect like a smartass? Can we only focus on your single issue? Is it not possible to do more than one thing at a time in politics?
6
Kami - 12hr
Classic first world problem...
8
Galactose - 6hr
Monarchy ? Or Age-verification ?
1
Kami - 6hr
Lobsters.
2
ripcord @lemmy.world - 10hr
Oh, shut up.
5
NachBarcelona - 6hr
Good.
7
Trigger2_2000 @sh.itjust.works - 2hr
I've never been able to boil a lobster alive.
Boil it to death, yes, but not boil it (to) alive.
5
IndieGoblin @lemmy.4d2.org - 46min
Good. This may seem like a joke now but slowly over decades people will stop doing this.
4
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 12hr
Does this include if you chill them first, or is that no longer a recommended choice?
Also, is this specifically lobster or other crustaceans
3
ilinamorato @lemmy.world - 5hr
I'm totally unfamiliar with how to cook a lobster, but "chilling them" doesn't seem to make much sense to me. They live in the North Atlantic, where water temperatures tend to hover in the "refrigerator" range most of the year, and with salinity lowering the freezing point, probably goes even lower over the winter. Seems like chilling a lobster would just make it feel at home.
1
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 5hr
Chilling them slows their metabolism down as they are cold blooded. Also you get different crustaceans, not all are from the north atlantic. The crabs I caught around the harbour were around 37°c 14°c. I presume the ideal temp varies by species.
2
ilinamorato @lemmy.world - 5hr
This news is about lobsters, specifically.
But how would it slow their metabolism down? Unless they're just eating non-stop at room temperature, that colder weather is what they're adapted to.
1
kuhli @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 3hr
Freezer
1
Korhaka @sopuli.xyz - 3hr
The article headline isn't government policy though. The government strategy only mentions lobsters once and its along with other crustaceans. Actions below that state they will make it clear live boiling is not an acceptable killing method. It isn't completely clear but does sound like its for all of them.
Lobsters and crabs are some of the highest tonnage caught commercially where I live and the water rarely goes much below 10°c in the coldest of winter.
1
tuff_wizard @aussie.zone - 14hr
Nigel Farage would know “authoritarian control freakery” when he sees it. I think it’s unsettling for him to see it coming from someone else.
3
Konala Koala - 14hr
That's good, but I also really want to see "Cutting Down Eucalyptus Trees to be banned in AU Koala Cruelty Crackdown" happening.
Well, my comment was for both what this topic is about and what I said in my comment. Don't know why it's being downvoted like people are against koalas.
1
KiloGex @lemmy.world - 9hr
So let me get this straight, rather than almost immediately killing them by dropping them in boiling water, instead we're supposed to slowly freeze them to death first? That's supposed to be more humane?
2
sexy_peach @feddit.org - 8hr
Tell us about your lobster knowledge
7
FatVegan @leminal.space - 7hr
Since not killing them doesn't even seem to be an option...
4
Markus29 @feddit.nl - 5hr
What about crawfish though?
2
BoxOfFeet @lemmy.world - 5min
While they are alive and conscious.
That's why I fill my lobsters with propofol before cooking them. People always say my dinner parties are a snooze. I don't know why, I always have a good time. Of course, I don't eat lobster.
MicroWave in world @lemmy.world
Boiling lobsters alive to be banned in UK animal cruelty crackdown
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/22/boiling-lobsters-alive-banned-animal-cruelty-crackdownBoiling lobsters while they are alive and conscious will be banned as part of a government strategy to improve animal welfare in England.
Government ministers say that “live boiling is not an acceptable killing method” for crustaceans and alternative guidance will be published.
The practice is already illegal in Switzerland, Norway and New Zealand. Animal welfare charities say that stunning lobsters with an electric gun or chilling them in cold air or ice before boiling them is more humane.
Honestly that seems pretty reasonable. Boiling things alive is pretty barbaric.
It frightens me that we can't 100% agree that boiling a living thing that feels pain, is bad.
Humans are the worst.
Have you ever seen felines hunting? They are fucking psychos by your standards.
Judging ourselves by what animals do is a wild take. I guess we've just all broadly stopped caring about being human sometime around when "alpha males" became a serious topic of discussion in human behavior.
In case you didn't know, we are animals.
We should always keep that in mind and stop pretending "being human" is some universal thing.
I've heard a lot of the world's worst people use that as an excuse to do the most horrible things, and I despair that so many people readily embrace it as a validation.
We are animals but we are different than every other animal, and we can be better and do better, and if holding yourself to a higher standard because you were born with sapience is too inconvenient, I'm sure there are some political and ideological groups out there who would love to have you.
edit: I regret spending any time responding to the obvious trolls in this post. Block and move on people. If you ever find yourself having to argue that we're better than animals, you're not arguing with someone participating in good faith.
LOL so being against your perspective means validating the worst of humanity? Wow! Such arrogance...
We can "do better" from our own perspective. We are "sapient" from our own perspective.
I'm sure there are also a lot of groups of disgusting people you could fit, but how is that relevant? Is it just that you lack arguments and you resort to insulting a person that you don't know? Is this what you call being "born with sapience"?
What a petty animal you are...
You sound insufferable
😎
I don't engage with kids trying to troll, get lost.
Stay safe in your bubble.
To be very crass, animals also rape other animals, and I hope to god that you will not use "but we are animals" as an argument there as well.
We are different from other animals in that we are moral agents. We can know the difference between good and bad. That makes us responsible to act upon that difference, too.
They get a free pass because they are cute.
Cats are neither human, nor do they boil their kills just because they can. Cats kill, yes. Cats are murderous little fuckers, yes.
However the issue the above poster is talking about isn't about killing of whatever. Or about eating meat. Their point was about doing it in as humane a way as possible.
We don't boil lobsters just because we can, but because we cook our food.
But, we all know they would if they could.
I said felines by the way, so cats AND all others too.
Have you ever seen lions hunting their prey and eating it from its ass while it is still trying to run away?
Or playing with their prey before eventually strangling it?
That's their way of doing it, it's gruesome but it's fine.
We have our own ways of doing it too, some methods are even considerably more painless than others.
Also you should note your own use of "humane", that's a key point there. All this talk is just human specist nonsense.
Last but not least, I could even argue (as a human) that it's ridiculous to judge what killing method is acceptable (and even what is acceptable to eat) based on things like pain, or having a nervous system.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR SPECIST CRINGE ARGUMENTS! Killing a human, a lobster, a mosquito or a tomato plant is just killing, no matter what lies you tell yourself.
Haha, all those words that I didn't read...and yet I still know they all amount to "I'm an angry tool".
No worries, I understand that it's too much text to process for some individuals.
Yeah, it's deffo that. And it's definitely not that you are an angry tool that posts rants about shit that's got nothing to do with boiling lobsters, haha.
FIFY
Devastating scenes. CW: I'm going to eat you little fishy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMlDlu-MTRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSeSTI272LM
Most killing involves pain, all meat requires killing.
Technically not true... You could amputate and eat part of an animal without killing it
Yeah. I kinda like meat, but seriously. At least make it quick and/or painless, not torture.
Imagine how vegans must feel about the world lol
Vegans don't care about the natural world with regards to suffering caused by the natural world itself. That's just how things are.
Vegans instead are more interested in suffering caused by humans inflicted on the natural world. This suffering can be more or less wicked than what you'd find out in the wild.
Big distinction.
Inb4 plants feel just as much pain, just differently
Yeah but they are masochists and they like it.
Time to chew rocks
You monster!
In that moral framework ig fruits and veggies would be fine since the plant wants us to eat it
Pretty sure we're supposed to surgically extract the seeds after anaesthetizing the fruits whilst it's still on the tree.
Pretty poorly, all things considered.
which animal can 100% agree with you on that? maybe crabs but even then maybe not
Will always be funny to me that lobsters are such an expensive delicacy at fine dining restaurants when they started out as food for extremely poor people in coastal communities. In the old days the general public viewed eating them as you would view eating a rat today.
Oysters have made the switch between poor people food and rich people food quite a few times. Tuna has made the switch in my lifetime. It probably has something to do with how easy they are to harvest/catch when plentiful versus the results of overfishing, and how delicate the food is in the supply chain.
Bacon also, it used to be cheap as fuck. Same with chicken wings. Two of the cheapest parts of the animal, now magically nearly the most expensive.
Its both here, cooking bacon is the cheapest boneless meat I have ever seen per weight. But you can also get pretty fancy expensive bacon choices too.
There's a theory that carbonara used to be a "war time" food.
Give the tech bros long enough and rat will be a delicacy for the rest of us aswell
It always comes back to demolition man
Not looking forward to the clamshells.... maybe lobster claws could be a cheap alternative?
Lobster is only ok. I don't think I've ever had anything with lobster in it that wasn't independently good, or improved in any meaningful way with lobster.
That said, when lobster was viewed the way you're describing, it was seen as more of a pest. There was so much lobster freely available, it was literally piling up on beaches. No one was fishing for lobsters, they were just scooping them up and then making a rather revolting stew with them. That was being served to prisoners as a form of penance, meant to be bland and unstimulating. Sandy guts and all.
While they were called 'sea rats',they werent considered quiteas bad as rats- it was common for servant's contracts to limit the number of meals lobster could be served to them for, usually 1 or 2 a week, not the hard 0 that serving rat would have been.
Uh, does anyone in this thread even know how to kill a lobster?
I feel like this is barely a problem, you usually slice into its head and then immediately boil to avoid any chance of rapid bacteria breakdown. I dont even know if theres any other practical method aside from boiling without slicing into the head.
Also not to be that guy, but is this really such a massive concern that the government needs to focus on right now? Seems like they are more concerned about handling lobsters than their own citizens after they labeled Palestine Action a terrorist group and had anyone supporting them arrested and charged as such.
Maybe the citizens have been asking for them to deal with lobbyists and they just misheard
I do think it'd be more humane to not boil lobbyists alive. We can find less grotesque ways to dispatch them.
I for one think it's highly appropriate
I think boiling is a little too traditional for me. Personally I think the good old fashioned French methods cut just right, you know?
I worked at a country club that would, occasionally, and on the hush hush for VIPS inject them still live, with a syringe of boiling butter, poaching them from the inside out. I believe that is the old fashioned French method
Killed a lobster? I've never even tasted one. Sounds like a rich people problem.
Lobsters used to be poor people's food. The taste is really just giant shrimp.
1800s new England, they were refered to as sea rats, and it was a common clause in servants contracts limiting how many meals a week they could be given lobster.
Can you imagine, hahaa
Honestly not missing much. I don't get all the fuss, plenty of other seafood that imo tastes loads better.
Labour is flailing. They came into office with an enormous popular mandate to undo the corrupt and abusive practices of the Conservative government, then proceeded to extend and cement these same unpopular policies while engaging in all the same corrupt practices - in many cases taking money and gifts from the exact same people.
This is what they've got. Haphazardly pandering to any special interest group that won't step on the toes of a mega-donor or trip over graft being committed by another influential MP.
AIPAC fully has its hooks into the Labour government, especially at the leadership level. In many ways, the sanction on boiled lobster and the sanction on Palestine Rights activists is coming from the same place. A need to crank up policing on everyone everywhere for anything that can justify a government sanction.
The UK police state is metasticizing again.
Lobsters have a decentralized nervous system, so stabbing it in the head doesn't really do anything. It's pretty much just something chefs started doing to appear to know more than the home cook. There's no scientific reason for stabbing them first.
So then not only are you still boiling them alive, but you are also causing a lot of pain by unnecessarily stabbing their face off?
This is how I found out that lobsters don't have a single centralized brain like humans do.
Lobster as Lemmy mascot when?
This is why the correct method is splitting, where you cut the head in half down the middle and partway into the main body. Cutting the head off still leaves a significant chuck of the "brain" alive and unwell.
So, how WOULD you kill it without pain?
Not at all would be fine.
Sure. But, like, is this law pointless? Because unless it bans it altogether (and the comment I replied to is correct about the pain) then it sounds like it's pointless.
People said freezing. But that just sounds like more psuedo science. Is it science based? Or is it just "people say".
Freezing just slows them down. A lot of lobsters are caught in the Atlantic around Maine, they can handle your fridge just fine, and your freezer for a painfully long amount of time.
Give them a shot of morphine first
Lol I could see this becoming a delicacy- lobster that gets you high when you eat it
Ikr. They stopped the lobsters from being slowly boiled alive but not their own citizens lol
Two ways to dispatch a lobster.
One is to put the knife behind the eyes, stab down and chop towards the front of the lobster, bifurcating the head.
The other is to put the lobster in the freezer for 30-45 minutes. This slows its metabolism to the point of practical death, so it doesnt feel anything when you put it in the boiling water.
second option is less..actively choppy, so i imagine most squeemish people would prefer that option.
oof i'd take the head chop over being rapidly frozen and then boiled, thanks
Cause you're not cold blooded, or a lobster. So you don't have the same response to it that they do.
Valid point but you cant prove that im not either of those things
i can't prove you're not coffee either
they also got that lobster gun that does the choppy for you if you're doing it in bulk or are squeamish
It's such a non issue to dispatch a lobster before throwing it into the pot using your method. The guys who are against it are just fucking assholes.
How much "focus" does something like this actually require?
The best I know is to freeze them first, not like solid, but just for an hour or so which makes them super lethargic.
You can just put them in the fridge. They don't need to be in the freezer.
Then drive a knife through their head. Dead before they know what's happening.
i guess the moral question is whether that's arguably significantly more humane than skipping the severing step. to me it seems possibly unknowable; either way the thing does suffer the slaughter and the question is to what degree. if there's any culinary or other practical advantage to doing it, and folks believe it's more humane, why not...
UK government caring more about lobster welfare than that of trans people.
The bad thing is that these goals do not conflict with each other: they could easily do both if they wanted to.
I don't think you're allowed to boil trans people alive either
whoa, you mean sentient animals feel pain?? WHAT!?
Nah, the screaming in horror is just air escaping /s
Lobsters don't have vocal cords. Its physically impossible for them to scream.
Ok but that isn't really the point they were making
That was literally a point they made.
pushes glasses Well akshually... 🤓
So exhausting. I can't believe we have to explain boiling animals alive is animal cruelty, against a sea of "bugs lol who cares" and joking about inconsequential details. It's sad
The amount of people that are in knots trying to defend a barbaric practice is quite telling.
Chopping down plants & eating them is also barbaric.
Do plants feel pain the way a lobster would? I genuinely don’t know.
I do know that making an animal suffer rather than giving it a quick death is wrong.
From what I've read so far, unfortunately, it seems like they might. Plants can communicate with each other and form underground resource networks with other plants, fungi, and microorganisms. Including for illness, boring bugs and pain responses. The smell of fresh cut grass is one of those warning/pain responses.
I've wanted to do some bonsai succulents, but the process towards any living thing seems cruel and painful.
Now this I can agree with.
Yes agreed so lets just starve then, only proper thing to do
Just learn to photosynthesize like that guy obviously does
Nah, you starve. You're the one who's into that stuff.
It's just silly that this is still a thing in almost 2026. It's so obvious even Hitler banned it, and he was no animal rights activist.
He actually was, despite his horrific treatment of human beings.
Of course if animals were in the care of the "wrong" human beings then they had to be killed. Fascist ideology has always, and will always, be an incoherent mess of contradictions in service of bigotry.
Well, I'll be damned.
I'll need to read up on this.
Hitler was a maniac and a despicable person, but I seem to remember reading that he was vegetarian and at least liked dogs. Maybe he was an animal rights activist, provided that you didn't consider humans animals.
From what I've been told lobsters will release a toxin if not killed properly. Boiling alive is/was the easiest way to do it and thus widely adopted especially at consumer level.
Quickly in the sense that bacterial growth on them becomes toxic within a far shorter time than other things we eat. Bacteria isn't growing in the 10 seconds it takes to kill them and then dump into the pot. Just don't leave them laying around for a long time.
Apparently it's not easy to kill lobsters. They don't have a single brain that you can drive a nail through like mammals, AFAIK.
One of the researchers who showed that lobsters feel pain recommended freezing them as the best available method, but maybe it's better to just stop eating them?
Edit: the article says that electrical stunning works.
Electrical stunning isn't an option for home chefs. I have heard of chilling but not sure if that is also being banned in the UK or not, given that they would still be alive. And yeah, no idea how reliable someone is going to be in actually killing it and not just rendering it unable to move but still feeling everything.
Even if a perfect knife cut works, how precise do you need to be? The best method would be the one which is pretty easy to do successfully. Also what about other crustaceans?
Nah, they don't release a toxin, at least not in the sense of "self-defense" that is usually meant with that phrase. After death they rot very quickly, so they do become toxic, I guess that's similar enough. My dad cooked lobsters often and he always stuck a paring knife in a very specific spot in the head right before boiling, I assume this information is about to become much more widespread to comply with these new laws.
Put them on ice to slow/sleep them, then slice through the center on the head with a sharp knife.
It's a fucking bug! Boil it and eat the shit already.
I worked at Red Lobster for a number of years as a young'un. A large part of my work in the prep kitchen initially (after I graduated from the dish ring) was to slice live Maine lobs in half to make "princess lobsters" (half a lobster with body cavity stuffed with yummy). These stupid bugs are no more sentient than a cockroach that you smash with a shoe.
Why would anyone spend even a second considering the feelings of a fucking bug?!
The science would tend to disagree with you.
All the evidence points to the fact that lobsters do feel pain in the same way humans do. As they're being boiled alive they release significant amounts of cortisol, the same as us.
Bug or not, it is sentient. If we are going to insist on eating them then we have a moral responsibility to minimise their suffering before we do.
To be fair they didn't deny it had feelings, they made it clear they don't care about their feelings.
There is no living creature, plant or animal, that doesn't have feedback systems that inform on injury and damage. It may not be in a form that we recognize as pain, but in effect that is what it is.
Nothing lives without affecting the lives of other creatures, but we can do our best to minimize suffering. For lobsters it's probably ideal to freeze or shock them, as mentioned in the article.
Do you waffle about before taking a slipper to the roach that snuck in under your door-jamb? No, you smash that repugnant shit and scoop it up with a piece of junk mail to toss it in the toilet. That sentient bug is just not food to you. The fact that a lobster is food does not make it a more elevated being.
"The fact that a lobster is food does not make it a more elevated being"
And I never said it did. I said the fact that it has an observable and measurable pain response makes it a more elevated being.
Lobsters are sentient, the science has proven it. They might be on the lower end but they have also been shown to demonstrate a limited form of memory and intelligence when it comes to things like pain, avoiding objects that are known to cause it.
I get not caring, but mate, you sound like an absolute psychopath who takes delight in killing them.
You are missing the point dude. Boiling alive is slow torture, they are not sa....
Fuck it good luck with your reading comprehension skills
I also don't waffle about a shoe on a cockroach, in fact I try my best to kill them as fast as possible and in any case will choose a shoe to spray, which takes longer. No point in making anyone or anything squirm in agony over several minutes unless I have a personal vendetta against them.
Sounds like a very quick way to kill it.
I feel the need to point out that the person you're arguing with is not saying you shouldn't kill lobsters.
What if they feel every moment? Can't go out of your way for 2 minutes to potentially reduce the suffering?
Yes, they feel every moment until the knife slices their pea-sized nerve center of a brain in half. That took about 1/2 of a second. It's done and now we can eat.
Your original comment made it seem as though you were not slicing their pea-brains in half, just boiling them alive (this was cleared up in your follow-up).
Having said that, there may be worse ways to go. In the first season of Shogun they put a guy in a large cauldron of water and slowly brought it up to a boil.
But then I remember that MrBallen story where the guy was pushed into an NYC storm drain and was steamed alive for several minutes in agony. From what I remember, steam isn't like fire where your nerves are essentially cauterized do you can't feel anything. You have to suffer through every minute of it.
Let's just agree to all show each other the courtesy of a knife to the brain.
Lobsters don't have a centralised brain. Shows just how much you know about lobsters.
No matter how many of them you have killed and cooked, that clearly doesn't make you a biology expert...
So basically everything you said, can be discarded as an uninformed garbage opinion.
Bro you sound like an absolute psychopath.
If somebody is saying that to you (like right now) perhaps you should reflect on what you've said
I've worked in restaurants, so I'm used to a certain level of psychopathising among chefs. I don't know if it's changed in the last two decades, but in that context I interpreted their comment as being slightly grumpy at being told how to do their jobs.
If they gleefully talked about using the live animal as a sex toy, for example, that would arrive in my brain as an allusion to romantic difficulties.
Just putting that out there. The whole argument looks like cultural differences to me. I don't think any chef would actually prefer animal cruelty... I did once hear a maître'd joke that cruelty makes food taste better, though.
They prefer animal cruelty in the "I had to do it, so you should too!" kind of way.
Okay, so I have a guy in a chef hat fucking a lobster image in my head. Thanks….
A spoonful of sugar, I always say
Because people have gone just as far to the left as those to the right. Meanwhile the rest of us are just trying to live our lives with what little we have yet somehow everything we do to make our living easier is an inconvenience to those on both extremes.
This is a left/right thing?!! WTF? This just a food thing and if you are left/righting it you are a world-class dolt!
Nah, people that say this (horseshoe theory etc) are exclusively right wing and are grasping at straws to claim we're just like them.
Which we're not.
I'd even kill Nazis quickly.
They believe compassion and empathy are "woke"
Like lobster.
Who will think about the poor individuals that can only afford lobster and a pot, but not a freezer?
Boiling lobsters is barbaric. You should steam them
Good change, as someone who's vegan.
We'll take what we can get
This doesn't kill the crab
So this is an important issue ? & not the abolition of monarchy or the age-verification act ?
Whataboutism masterclass right here
Yeah if you consider censorship to be a non-issue. Trees are living things too remember.
We can never do anything except the one thing you find most pressing? We have to focus 100% of every single ressource to your specific issue?
You find censorship to be not an issue ? Wow
If you really feel like commenting, why not answer my question instead of trying to delfect like a smartass? Can we only focus on your single issue? Is it not possible to do more than one thing at a time in politics?
Classic first world problem...
Monarchy ? Or Age-verification ?
Lobsters.
Oh, shut up.
Good.
I've never been able to boil a lobster alive.
Boil it to death, yes, but not boil it (to) alive.
Good. This may seem like a joke now but slowly over decades people will stop doing this.
Does this include if you chill them first, or is that no longer a recommended choice?
Also, is this specifically lobster or other crustaceans
I'm totally unfamiliar with how to cook a lobster, but "chilling them" doesn't seem to make much sense to me. They live in the North Atlantic, where water temperatures tend to hover in the "refrigerator" range most of the year, and with salinity lowering the freezing point, probably goes even lower over the winter. Seems like chilling a lobster would just make it feel at home.
Chilling them slows their metabolism down as they are cold blooded. Also you get different crustaceans, not all are from the north atlantic. The crabs I caught around the harbour were around
37°c14°c. I presume the ideal temp varies by species.This news is about lobsters, specifically.
But how would it slow their metabolism down? Unless they're just eating non-stop at room temperature, that colder weather is what they're adapted to.
Freezer
The article headline isn't government policy though. The government strategy only mentions lobsters once and its along with other crustaceans. Actions below that state they will make it clear live boiling is not an acceptable killing method. It isn't completely clear but does sound like its for all of them.
Lobsters and crabs are some of the highest tonnage caught commercially where I live and the water rarely goes much below 10°c in the coldest of winter.
Nigel Farage would know “authoritarian control freakery” when he sees it. I think it’s unsettling for him to see it coming from someone else.
That's good, but I also really want to see "Cutting Down Eucalyptus Trees to be banned in AU Koala Cruelty Crackdown" happening.
Both is good
Well, my comment was for both what this topic is about and what I said in my comment. Don't know why it's being downvoted like people are against koalas.
So let me get this straight, rather than almost immediately killing them by dropping them in boiling water, instead we're supposed to slowly freeze them to death first? That's supposed to be more humane?
Tell us about your lobster knowledge
Since not killing them doesn't even seem to be an option...
What about crawfish though?
While they are alive and conscious.
That's why I fill my lobsters with propofol before cooking them. People always say my dinner parties are a snooze. I don't know why, I always have a good time. Of course, I don't eat lobster.
Man you guys are tackling the real issues.