In Windows 10, you could move it to the top, left, or right of the screen.
In every version of Windows up until now which has contained a taskbar and start menu, as far back as Windows 95. Not just Windows 10. Let's not sell short the full extent idiocy on display, here.
"Pouring its engineering resources," my ass.
139
Wispy2891 @lemmy.world - 16hr
In the launch version of windows 11 and for over TWO YEARS it didn't even support drag&drop. It was working fine even on windows me
41
Lost_My_Mind @lemmy.world - 15hr
Drag and drop worked on windows 3.1. That was like the whole thing. "LOOK WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW!"
At this point, I'm fairly sure pissing people off is the point with Windows 11. It's full of AI no one wants, refuses to officially run on most hardware that people already have, despite running just fine on that same hardware UNofficially, dropped support for drag and drop, doesn't let you move the taskbar.
And thats not even to mention the fact that it monitors you, and reports back to HQ with screen grabs and usage activity.
Oh look, ZorinOS, just one singular distro, had 1.6 million downloads in the past 2 months.
Wait, is there any special thing that happened 2 months ago? Oh right. Windows 10 support ended, and microsoft told its userbase "fuck you, you can't get support for windows 10, and this computer can't update to windows 11. This computer is now trash!"
Suddenly all these youtube videos pop up "Is your PC unable to install windows 11? Try linux!"
And these videos don't try to sway you to one distro or another. They point out a few big hitters like mint or ubuntu. I can't imagine them specifically naming zorin, unless it's a zorin centric video. But I'm talking about the flood of "try linux" videos that popped up in October.
And that 1.6 million is JUST zorin. That's the runoff. I don't have numbers, or sources, but gut instinct tells me that if Zorin had 1.6 million downloads, Mint must have had like 5 million minimum. Every video always reccomends Mint. It's probably overtaken Ubuntu at some point as most used distro.
And all of this, every single bit of user loss has NOTHING to do with linux. Users are angrily switching. Not happily. They feel abandoned, and forced to switch.
If Microsoft either extended Windows 10 support, or allowed Windows 11 to be installed on reasonable hardware, this linux boom DOES NOT HAPPEN. This is Microsoft saying "Yeah bitch, money is tight! Go buy another computer, loser! You'll do what we say, and there's nothing you can do to stop us!"
That's when users switched to linux. This is pure hubris from Microsoft. It would be interesting if somehow we could get a combined number of EVERY distros doenload numbers.
31
anon5621 @lemmy.ml - 12hr
It also has a very poorly written UI interface that's fucking infuriating. I was reverse engineering it to figure out why it's so damn slow on HDDs, with explorer.exe rendering like shit, the Start menu crawling, and taskbar popups that make you want to smash your screen. They wrote really really fucking bad code compared to the Win7 daysâbasically just took the old MFC crap and slapped a XAML wrapper on it to make it look "nice." What a fucking disaster.
10
hikaru755 @lemmy.world - 2hr
Uh, what? Can you clarify what you mean by "drag&drop"? Because dragging and dropping files or text around within or between application windows definitely worked even when Win 11 was new, so you're probably talking about some specific instance, I assume?
1
JensSpahnpasta @feddit.org - 16hr
And it kind of makes sense to have the taskbar at the right or left on a widescreen monitor as there is so much space there
14
B-TR3E - 10hr
What does making sense have to do with MS-Windows?
4
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 4hr
Windows 98 felt as if it was very sensible (when it didn't hang). Windows 2000 Server I still remember as the best one. XP was too bright in visual design, but homely.
3
partial_accumen - 9hr
In every version of Windows up until now which has contained a taskbar and start menu, as far back as Windows 95. Not just Windows 10.
Sadly not true. Microsoft removed the Start button in a version of Windows before. It was in Windows 8 (and Windows Server 2012 for some godforsaken reason) with the cursed "metro" interface. MS did it for the same stupid reason they're citing here "tablet and touchscreen users". The uproar caused MS to release Windows 8.1 a year later where they returned the Start button.
7
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 4hr
Windows 8 and metro were not so bad compared to what's happening now. They at least had a consistent picture in mind. I liked those things even if I wouldn't use them (moved firmly to Linux by then).
My own humble opinion is that Windows in all its parts (perhaps except NT and basic layers) is as a project too much legacy. Simply existed too long with backwards support for various versions of involved libraries, with MS carrying the burden of maintaining old versions (while applications developers could package them similarly to how they package patched versions). Many tools to do the same thing.
They should put all that on life support, installable separately, and make a clean set of libraries and tools that forms their new normal desktop installation. Preferably tabula rasa, no compromises.
A file manager, a configuration manager, a set of desktop widgets. It'll take them much less effort and time to just write a new set of tools.
A normal configuration manager supporting all that it should is the hardest thing. But it'll also be the killer feature, imagine one UI to configure everything in a Windows installation, it'd be as cool as YaST2 in OpenSUSE or drakconf. IIRC, their system configuration tools for Windows 98 were a bit more user-friendly than NT-inherited for 2000 and XP, and haven't (the old ones) improved much since then ; they can fix that.
That means dropping backwards compatibility for such a clean installation - well, who wants to run old applications, will run them in, sigh, that installable compatibility environment (might be cut down somehow).
I'm almost certain that'll be both cheaper and more popular among users than what they are doing.
2
anomnom @sh.itjust.works - 4hr
The also killed their UI performance previously when Vista first launched. Remember Aero?
1
hikaru755 @lemmy.world - 2hr
Sadly not true. Microsoft removed the Start button in a version of Windows before
They didn't say that every version of windows since then had a start button
First of all they only talked about the start menu, which was still part of 8, even if it was annoying and full-screen. And second they only said that every Windows version that had that allowed you to move the taskbar around. Not that every Windows version so far had it.
1
Janx - 15hr
The years of engineering salaries and test versions to dock a visual element at the top, instead of the bottom...
3
partial_accumen - 9hr
Maybe MS couldn't stuff enough ads into the old Start Menu requiring a re-write to allow for more ad space. /s
2
otacon239 @lemmy.world - 17hr
Microsoft applied a data-driven approach to find out which features to add now, which features to add later, and which to completely avoid.
WHAT DATA?!
72
pulsey @feddit.org - 17hr
They asked chatgpt
62
kaitco @lemmy.world - 16hr
But, only after not getting an answer from Copilot.
18
Leon - 16hr
Same thing.
5
SavageCoconut @lemmy.world - 17hr
The data they have compiled from years of people using Win 10 and Msoft Edge.
22
otacon239 @lemmy.world - 17hr
If they were using that data, then they would have included features people actually use in 10. Or maybe theyâre just doing the inverse of whatever the data suggests.
13
pemptago @lemmy.ml - 2hr
It's the data of what corners MS can cut to save more money than they lose when x number of users decide enough is enough.
1
hikaru755 @lemmy.world - 2hr
Or maybe you're overestimating the amount of people who actually used that. Spending effort on something that less than maybe 1% of users actually use and that is not load bearing to any important workflows is hard to argue for when you're a corp that is only concerned about its own bottom line. It's a pretty rational business decision, even if you (and I) disagree with it.
1
Dave. - 17hr
Microsoft applied a data-driven approach to find out which features to add now, which features to add later, and which to completely avoid.
Which is why if you dig deep enough into Settings you'll see WinXP Control Panel UI elements. You know, the elements that are actually useful for power users.
19
real_squids @sopuli.xyz - 17hr
There's a format dialog from NT still present in win 11
edit: it's from 1994 according to the person who wrote it
19
Dave. - 16hr
The main one I use is the network adaptor settings, where you can enable/disable protocols and most importantly for me, where you can easily add multiple IP addresses on a network adaptor.
The Win 8+ network settings page is an absolute trainwreck. I particularly like how it doesn't warn about conflicting IP addresses now and just silently accepts your given address and provides an auto-assigned 169.254 address instead if it sees even the smallest hint of another computer out there using the address you want to use.
Guaranteed fun and confusion trying to access/ping things until you finally check the status of the network adaptor and discover the auto assigned address, thanks Microsoft.
Not everyone wants to use dhcp, which is clearly their preferred direction, and there have been bugs where Cisco devices trigger that flip to auto assigned addresses even if things are fine.
15
anamethatisnt @sopuli.xyz - 15hr
Most of the old settings are at least easily reached if you can remember their names such as ncpa.cpl for the settings you mention but when you write "control printers" you get sent into the new Settings view now. Instead you gotta go to the control panel and change view from category to small or large icons to finally right click Devices and Printers and choose "open in a new window" to get there. If you left click it you get sent to the new Settings view.
3
Dave. - 11hr
It seems that every new release adds another layer of indirection (misdirection?) between you and the useful stuff you need to access. I use a third party utility to manage IP settings, and it's one click from its menu to get to the network adapter page. It takes me about 5 minutes of angry clicking around in stock standard win11 before I get to the same place.
5
meco03211 @lemmy.world - 17hr
Data can say whatever the hell you want if you lack scruples.
10
Madrigal - 16hr
Two data points: What their intern could do with React; what their intern couldnât do with React.
9
imecth - 17hr
It's Microsoft, they have all the data. And quite frankly it doesn't surprise even a little bit, i doubt even 5% of people moved around the taskbar, people are just ready to hitch themselves to every bandwagon they see shitting on Microsoft.
4
otacon239 @lemmy.world - 17hr
In that case, based on the roughly 1.5 billion Windows users, thatâll only affect a mere 75 million users for a feature thatâs been there since Windows 95.
18
cygnus @lemmy.ca - 17hr
The equation they are thinking of, though, is "will the cost of those who actually quit using Windows outweigh the cost of building and maintaining this feature." Funnily enough the inability to move the taskbar is what finally pushed me to Linux full-time, but the overwhelming majority will complain and stick to Windows.
9
vrighter @discuss.tchncs.de - 6hr
the reason is literally "because we decided not to implement it"
Saved you a click.
72
Bamboodpanda - 5hr
I'm one of the few who has had it at the top for as long as I can remember. It absolutely infuriated me to find out the feature had been removed.
8
Sidyctism II. - 1hr
Im more of a left-side guy, but i share your pain
1
Treczoks @lemmy.world - 14hr
Microsoftâs data shows such users are really small when compared to the number of users who are asking for other newer features in the taskbar.
Asking for things like AI integration everywhere?
60
Imgonnatrythis @sh.itjust.works - 13hr
Wouldn't it be cool if you could have AI on the desktop clock so you could ask it what time it was in different places in the world?
20
pivot_root @lemmy.world - 13hr
I was going to make a joke that they could also replace the taskbar search bar with an AI chat bar, but after reading the article, it turns out that they're planning on doing that for real:
Windows 11 taskbar is now being âupgradedâ with AI-first features. Microsoft is working on the Ask Copilot bar, which may replace Windows Search in the taskbar.
19
Imgonnatrythis @sh.itjust.works - 12hr
Your best sarcastic self is prime Microsoft material.
8
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 5hr
This is madness. Madness? This is Wiiiiindoooows.
Why the hell ...
They could just make another application. With compact mode to have as a prompt in the corner of the screen, similar to DigiCam or Winamp or other such.
They could even eventually deprecate tools allowing to do the same things it provides.
I can even say that conversational user interfaces are not all idiocy - at some point I dreamed of them replacing all the bright buttons and icons we have.
People making this are not idiots.
But putting a conversational user interface everywhere people expect to have one prompt and a response, preferably with clear logic of that response, - it's just socially hostile behavior.
There really is progress behind this! Or, more precisely, there is sanity, it's not all hype. Making a useful GUI requires learning something about ergonomics and human psychology and tests, most UI designers don't have a clue. And a conversational interface, like in old text quests or MUDs and with these AI chatbots, solves the problem. It doesn't require memorizing a thousand commands and interpreter syntax like a command shell.
Unless you make a UI with downsides of both and upsides of neither. Takes Microsoft to do this.
2
prole - 25min
The people making it might not be idiots, but the people making the design decisions are
1
prole - 26min
Didn't they try something similar with Cortana, and were thoroughly rejected?
1
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 5hr
Or you could have a widget just showing it for a few timezones. FvwmButtons, Exec exec date ... and Schedule Periodic ... in FVWM can do that.
1
B-TR3E - 10hr
building the taskbar from scratch meant that they had to cherry-pick things to put into the feature list first, and the ability to move the taskbar didnât make the cut, for several reasons that Microsoft values.
Translation: Nobody really knows (or wants to take the blame), we probably just forgot to put on the feature list. Anyway, I'll just use the usual vague weasel-words that don't really mean anything.
53
Bluefruit @lemmy.world - 9hr
"Window's is built on many layers of shit and we dont know what will or won't break things.
Also co pilot was really expensive"
26
III @lemmy.world - 8hr
Also, please use copilot... please
13
Bluefruit @lemmy.world - 6hr
Just one more ai tool bro just one more.
Please bro its so good you gotta use them all to make it worth it.
3
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 5hr
This is written as if a taskbar were a complex piece of software. It has to display a window list, a start button, a few shortcuts and a tray, right?
Nothing is trivial, but they are a company that can buy some nation-states with their citizens as slaves. Surely they can buy that much labor.
5
plyth @feddit.org - 4hr
This is written as if a taskbar were a complex piece of software.
Google for stories about how it is configured or built. The old taskbar was endlessly complex.
2
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 2hr
Which would mean it should have been rewritten long before. =\
2
Wispy2891 @lemmy.world - 16hr
When you think about having the taskbar on the right or the left, all of a sudden the reflow and the work that all of the apps have to do to be able to have a wonderful experience in those environments is just huge
It was working fine in windows 95. Suddenly all programmers became incompetent and can't handle something like that?
50
blackn1ght @feddit.uk - 15hr
This makes no sense to me what so ever. Why do any apps care about where the taskbar is? How's it any different when a window isn't maximised and the user resizes it? Either I'm seriously misunderstanding this or it's a completely made up excuse.
I'd rather they just say "we completely rewrote the taskbar, but we know that less than 0.01% of users move their taskbar so we didn't prioritize it".
To me the bigger issue with the taskbar is that you can't make it compact. Instead it has to be a big chunky mess.
22
Zak @lemmy.world - 16hr
The bit about apps having to reflow seems nonsensical. They have to reflow any time the user resizes their windows.
I'm not accepting any excuses from MS about limited resources when Linux desktop environments built by hobbyists have the feature in question.
46
Undearius - 15hr
They have to reflow any time the user resizes their windows.
The whole operating system is even named after that concept.
29
brsrklf @jlai.lu - 15hr
Yeah, sounds like bullshit. I don't even see why that particular concern would create more work on the OS's part.
If an application fits "wonderfully" into the space it's given, Windows did nothing but telling it the dimensions it needs to fill. And as you said those dimensions can vary wildly.
10
THB @lemmy.world - 14hr
Yeah especially considering you can install 3rd party solutions to dock the taskbar to the left which work perfectly fine
6
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 4hr
when Linux desktop environments built by hobbyists
That might be a bit obsolete as a state of things. Like 15 years obsolete.
1
andyburke - 17hr
Please, consider trying out linux if you haven't: you can usually make a "live usb" and take it for a test drive without having to actually reinstall (if you don't like it, just take the usb stick out and reboot back to windows).
I would dearly love to never again have to hear about the latest bullshit Microsoft is foisting on people.
Do your part! Switch. Everything just works better over here.
39
PancakesCantKillMe @lemmy.world - 16hr
A word of caution: If you use bitlocker (copy your keys!), it can have hooks in the TPM/bios settings.
Disable bitlocker prior to attempting a live boot.
It will lock your disk if you don't prepare for it.
Letâs be real, itâs because it makes it easier to train AIs on the Recall screenshots if it always has the taskbar in the same position as a reference context
39
ilinamorato @lemmy.world - 12hr
Four years ago, Recall wasn't a thing. Microsoft was caught as off-guard by the AI hype machine as the rest of us. So I doubt this was originally the reason.
Might be now, though.
15
KairuByte @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 11hr
This is such a weird take. Recall wasnât even a glimmer in M$âs eye when this limitation was introduced. And it would take virtually nothing to add positions to the training, never mind the fact that they could just completely ignore the taskbar since the OS always knows where it is.
4
Krudler - 9hr
Further the containers contain the info, so the position on the users' screen is rather irrelevant.
3
ilinamorato @lemmy.world - 12hr
Tali Roth, the then product manager working on the core Windows user experience, including the Start menu, taskbar, and notifications, took up the question and talked about how building the taskbar from scratch meant that they had to cherry-pick things to put into the feature list first, and the ability to move the taskbar didnât make the cut, for several reasons that Microsoft values.
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!
If you have working code, why would you rewrite it from scratch? Refactor, sure. Overhaul, maybe. But why rewrite the whole thing?! You're gaining nothing but unnecessary bugs.
I know all the joke answers. To justify a product manager's salary, because Microsoft gonna Microsoft, whatever. I want to know the real reason. Why would you ever rewrite working code from scratch if you don't have to?
38
Typhoon @lemmy.ca - 12hr
Probably to add something terrible for the user but good for MS. Ad integration? Easier to spy?
14
ilinamorato @lemmy.world - 11hr
That's fair, but even with that, it's got to be easier to shove it into existing code. Especially if you're trying to do it in a way that people don't notice!
And actually, the Windows 10 start menu infamously had ads, too. So it can't be that.
9
partofthevoice @lemmy.zip - 11hr
Could be that refactoring the code for Windows 11 compatibility, and new features, would have been roughly equivalent in effort to rebuilding. If the code has been poked and probed for years already, still follows old patterns, and have devolved into a tightly coupled mess of scattered system dependancies⌠maybe it just becomes easier to justify rebuilding it as a way of clearing out technical debt?
5
ForgotAboutDre @lemmy.world - 1hr
The people responsible only had experience with React, so they rebuilt it using React.
1
BuckenBerry @lemmy.world - 8hr
I assume the code was just too old and convoluted to maintain properly. I'm a bad coder so I've definitely redone parts of my scripts from scratch rather than trying to refactor them.
Then again I'm not a small billion dollar indie company who's main focuses are spying on users and helping to commit genocide.
5
plyth @feddit.org - 4hr
There exist some horror stories about the code but I have no idea how to find them.
1
FireWire400 - 16hr
I'd guess it's for the same reasons why we can't have a local account
itâs safe to assume that the company isnât interested in pouring its engineering resources into pursuing something that wonât benefit a majority of users
I mean, they could just let their awesome Copilot vibe code it, couldn't they? Another reasons why I love being on Linux; you can do whatever even it it doesn't make sense to the majority of users.
38
floquant - 15hr
Like half of open source is just devs trying to satisfy their very specific needs
14
Pechente @feddit.org - 14hr
I mean, they could just let their awesome Copilot vibe code it, couldn't they?
This is one of the best proofs that the AI industry is full of bullshit. If we can let the AI code everything now, where are our leaps in traditional, existing software?
7
Typhoon @lemmy.ca - 12hr
AI is very good at writing code but it's not good code.
4
đ¸đđđ - 13hr
Even if it will brick your system.
4
FireWire400 - 2hr
Every copy on Linux is personalised. Most are on the brink of collapse.
1
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 4hr
you can do whatever even it it doesnât make sense to the majority of users.
If they could do math, they'd know that you should fit every decision for all users you can think about, not the majority. Because the majority is different for every dimension, and if you choose a different strategy, your end result won't be usable for anyone.
1
oftenawake @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 3hr
I can't move the Windows 11 taskbar because I've been running Linux for over 20 years. Recommended fix!
34
prole - 35min
Yeah, KDE ftw
1
kalpol @lemmy.ca - 47min
Linux is missing enterprise management tools. For all its horrible flaws, nothing like SCCM, In tune, group policy, and Active Directory (in the sense of managing group policy, not so much identity) exist for Linux. Fix that, even commercially, and you might see a real change.
1
halfapage @lemmy.world - 17hr
I thought LLM would code this in a matter of minutes without wasting money away on human work hours? What is going on Microsoft?
34
msage @programming.dev - 14hr
-50 social points, it will impact your 365 licenses on a monthly bases
6
Janx - 15hr
"We specifically made the product worse, because that saves us money we don't need and gives us additional control over users' computers, since so many are locked into our ecosystem."
Seriously, read the article. That's basically it!
29
B-TR3E - 10hr
I think you're overinterpreting a bit. Actually the MS-droid doesn't really say anything. Just that the taskbar is not movable. Which was exactly the question.Typical evasion strategy.
2
vrighter @discuss.tchncs.de - 6hr
he literally said it was not one of the features cherry picked to be reimplemented. So he did say, paraphrased, "because we couldn't be bothered"
2
hark @lemmy.world - 5hr
Apps then need to constantly reflow their layouts, resize content, adjust snapping behavior, and handle edge cases across different screen sizes, DPI settings, and multi-monitor setups. Also, this reflow logic has to work perfectly for legacy Win32 apps, modern UWP apps, and everything in between.
You mean the apps that were already handling this for decades when windows wasn't a vibe-coded and ad-infested vehicle for AI slop?
28
dan @upvote.au - 4hr
Yeah this doesn't make sense. Docked bars have worked fine since Windows 95. You could have the task bar on any side, and apps would handle it. You could have multiple docked bars too, as some third-party apps used to be dockable. For example, Winamp had a view that was a short bar stretching the entire width of the screen, stuck to the top of the screen. The windowing system handled it with no issues.
6
_cryptagion [he/him] - 15hr
Laughs in KDE
25
SuperSpruce @lemmy.zip - 11hr
If it takes so much effort to move the taskbar, why did it need to be fully rewritten in react native when everything worked before?
25
xeekei @lemmy.zip - 10hr
This almost makes me want to move my panel in Plasma just because I can.
24
Kilgore Trout - 7hr
My Plasma Panel is on the top and I wouldn't want it anywhere else.
4
Pat_Riot @lemmy.today - 14hr
My wife was given a new work computer. Windows 11 and not enough RAM. She has been finding a new reason to hate it nearly every day, starting with how every change made to windows has fucked up her workflow in some way.
Me just nodding in acknowledgement as my little Dell Inspiron 15 purs along on Mint with Cinnamon.
24
Samsy @lemmy.ml - 5hr
Meanwhile KDE:
Put the taskbar wherever you want it's even floating if there isn't a window nearby.
22
muusemuuse @sh.itjust.works - 5hr
Different design pressures. KDE knowing they put in the work to keep it versatile now, they will always have more options in the future.
Microsoft is basically admitting they have no future.
4
ExLisper @lemmy.curiana.net - 4hr
Can you have different taskbar setup depending on the number of monitors and have it change automatically when you connect/disconnect external monitors?
2
ragas @lemmy.ml - 4hr
Yes, my work laptop has this with a 1, 2 or 3 monitor setup. It adapts as it detects the screens.
6
dan @upvote.au - 4hr
Yes! I'm not sure about it changing when you connect monitors (since I'm usually using desktop PCs), but you can have a different setup per monitor.
I have three monitors at work. My main monitor is configured to show all open apps in the taskbar, while the secondary monitors only show the apps opened on those monitors. You can totally change any of the configuration though... the layout, the position, the settings, or even just not have a taskbar on some monitors.
1
Blackmist @feddit.uk - 1hr
TLDR: We rewrote the taskbar and didn't bother implementing it.
19
LastYearsIrritant @sopuli.xyz - 13hr
No exaggeration, this was my breaking point for switching to linux exclusively.
19
tehn00bi @lemmy.world - 13hr
Same.
2
Spice Hoarder - 7hr
It's not even unreasonable. If this is the kind of incompetence guides something as simple as the task bar, I don't want to think about how fucked the rest of the code is.
1
BoycottTwitter @lemmy.zip - 6hr
Windows 11 is a bloated disaster. I urge everyone to switch to Linux or one of the BSDs.
Also switch away from Microsoft Office and use LibreOffice.
19
vacuumflower @lemmy.sdf.org - 5hr
Using BSDs is for Unix fetishists, honestly. I've been such. It's very pleasant to use FreeBSD on supported configuration, or OpenBSD on supported configuration and when you don't need anything impossible (like Wine).
But when you are a normal person who just wants to do normal things and live, Linux is more likely to be the thing, and Fedora will do.
In practice. In theory you might think you'd like GuixSD or NixOS, but in practice you won't spend the time on setting them up. Or Slackware, but it's even more bother. Or Arch, but it's too messy, stuff breaks and it's normal. You either want experience similar to BSDs or lack of bother similar to BSDs. For the former, there are plenty of distributions with ideology to spend days on setting up. For the latter, just install Fedora.
I'm using Void because that's what I installed the last time and forgot. But if I were choosing now, I'd probably, yes, just install Fedora.
And it's a shame they are slowly killing Windows. It could have been a nice desktop OS. There's some cultural similarity to Amiga that isn't felt under Unix-likes. And NT is interesting to read about.
I hope we'll have more pluralism in future. On the humus of today's tech.
3
veee - 17hr
Jokes on them I decided to give macOS a shake when it was time for a new laptop.
19
Ex Nummis - 17hr
People are fleeing into Linux & MacOS in droves. If this trend holds, Ms will lose majority in ~8 years.
13
slacktoid @lemmy.ml - 17hr
How can we make that 2?
11
Johandea @feddit.nu - 15hr
Microsoft's already on it.
5
veee - 16hr
I sourced a new desktop to install Linux and move my plex server once I get some new drives to put them in the proper format. Iâll be giving it to Microsoft from both ends ;)
4
stephen01king - 16hr
Not gonna happen in some industry where you get zero application support for Linux or MacOS.
3
RamRabbit @lemmy.world - 16hr
All in good time. Many industries are already moving to web, which is OS agnostic. And it's easier than ever to recompile a native program for different OSes.
4
yetAnotherUser @lemmy.ca - 12hr
It really seems like Windows really needs KDE to come back to the platform...
18
supersquirrel @sopuli.xyz - 10hr
Is this what hearing Vogon Poetry is like?
18
CompactFlax @discuss.tchncs.de - 17hr
My screen is 2160px tall and 3840 pixels wide. If itâs at the bottom, I waste nearly 1.8 times the number of pixels.
Microsoftâs excuse about app design and layout is straight bullshit because I can make application windows any size and ratio I want.
18
reddig33 @lemmy.world - 16hr
Is the explanation, âBecause Windows 11 is shittyâ?
15
bstix @feddit.dk - 3hr
The whole explanation about screen size is telling.
The entire point of Windows being named Windows is that apps can run inside these resizable rectangles nicknamed windows.
Yet the rectangular taskbar is apparently impossible to handle...
12
cley_faye @lemmy.world - 1hr
It's never been done before, and can never be done after, obviously. Not a chance. Nope. It's not like it worked before, not like windows placement is not really the business of the taskbar app, not like it works with almost every other DE/OS, too.
Absolutely impossible. Microsoft, that apparently did not make windows up until now otherwise they'd know this explanation is pure bullshit, have absolutely no way, no resources, no knowledge on how to setup the available rectangular area on the screen for window placement. Nope.
2
Broken @lemmy.ml - 9hr
Why can't they just ask copilot to program that for them?
12
Chais @sh.itjust.works - 4hr
Imagine letting your computer decide how you're gonna use it đ
11
ItsMeForRealNow @lemmy.world - 6hr
For anyone interested, Google the app called WindHawk. It makes it extremely possible to push the taskbar up.
10
InFerNo @lemmy.ml - 5hr
My screen is wider than it is tall. I have more horizontal screen real estate than vertical, why are you forcing me to waste vertical space? I wanna move it to the left again...
10
sartalon @lemmy.world - 2hr
So many people at work are having frustrating issues with Windows now.
It takes so fucking long to start up. Sure, you get a desktop and can open a program, but it just keeps locking up repeatedly for a good 20 minutes while whatever bloatware is running in the background during startup.
They cram OneDrive down your throat and it has constant issues.
They put so much shit in your way, in the name of "productivity" it makes your actual productivity worse.
FUCK COPILOT.
9
kalpol @lemmy.ca - 50min
It's the one drive cramming that really gets me, well also changing the right click context menu to hide cut and paste, wtf.
But seriously, not letting you move the Onedrive pin down the hotlinks sidebar out of the way? Extremely annoying.
This is handy for home users, but at work I am stuck. Installing third party software is not allowed.
1
cley_faye @lemmy.world - 1hr
The amount of bullshit is incredible. The DE sets the windows position. The DE tells the apps what's the "usable" desktop area. It worked for decades. And now "you can't imagine the amount of work"
Fuck you microsoft. Not that I care anymore. Even your excuses are pathetic.
8
Krudler - 9hr
Microsoft UI "designers" need to be beaten with frozen braids of 3 foot long licorice ropes.
7
roundup5381 @sh.itjust.works - 15hr
It is lost technology⌠only the powerful ancients could accomplish such.
Or those familiar with the dark arts.
6
Kissaki @feddit.org - 2hr
Why would applications have to consider relayouting? Isn't that entirely in the hand of the Windows taskbar?
It shows the window groups, windows, pops over previews of windows or tabs in a consistent style, presumably owned by the taskbar itself. At no point do applications themselves control their positions or size in the taskbar or the taskbar popovers.
5
infinitevalence @discuss.online - 17hr
Dont care, its where the task bar should go, and I should be able to configure it.
5
pryre - 16hr
Luckily, someone has got an actual solution. Check out WindHawk. I use it to run a vertical taskbar.
4
Resplendent606 - 15hr
"vibe coding"
3
nao @sh.itjust.works - 15hr
When you buy a pc with mac os, you are usually stuck with it, at least for some time. When you buy a pc with windows, you can usually just uninstall it and install something else.
3
ParadoxSeahorse @lemmy.world - 16hr
Good explanation. They couldnât checks notes be fucked
3
prole - 22min
laughs in KDE
2
Kissaki @feddit.org - 3hr
The taskbar items can't have a constant width. Your whole taskbar layout changes when you change a tab in Firefox.
You have to open a set of programs from right to left, because any other order will change the positions of the items you want to click.
When not combining windows, in Windows 10 you could order them to your preference and usefulness. Now, you're stuck. Even when not combined, the items are combined in one block, and you can't order them within the block either.
2
Rcklsabndn @sh.itjust.works - 2hr
I was briefly a star at work when all of the terminals updated to Win 11. I was the only dude that knew how to move the start button back to the lower left corner.
2
y0kai [he/him] - 17hr
Just ask ai to do it?
1
jobbies @lemmy.zip - 1hr
I think I'm done with people complaining about windows. This isn't 2012 and there's plenty of really good alternatives nowadays. How about instead of moaning you put in the leg work and try something new??
1
Don_alForno @feddit.org - 55min
IT department says no.
5
jobbies @lemmy.zip - 45min
IT department is a bunch of lazy fucks who can't be arses trying something else.
1
CerebralHawks - 15hr
At least on a Mac we can choose bottom or left! Wild that Microsoft won't give Windows users the option.
Of course you could say Mac is dorky with its always on menu bar at the top, but I quite like it. Even on my laptop with a notch it's not terrible. And I like the status bar (right side of the menu bar).
And of course on Linux you can just have it any which way you want it.
I still generally prefer windowing on Windows 11 to macOS Tahoe. Since Sequoia (the last version) we've had basic windowing (and before that, free apps like Rectangle to shoehorn it in), but what Microsoft started with Aero Snap in Windows 7 has never been "the Mac way." I think the old Mac users prefer a controlled chaos on their desktop. I like a more elegant setup. I like how I have Windows set up at work. It doesn't quite work as well on Mac, to try to do the same thing, but I wouldn't trade my Mac for something like my work PC, even if it could play more games.
1
abbiistabbii - 49min
They just don't want you to customise your computer in any way, huh.
Soon you'd be prevented from changing your wallpaper.
1
k0e3 @lemmy.ca - 28min
They'll only allow those generated using Copilot.
1
melsaskca @lemmy.ca - 10min
Quote from Microsoft..."You will be happy in your work!". /s
1
xep @discuss.online - 2hr
Windhawk and ExplorerPatcher will allow this while windows still resize correctly, so it's a mystery to me as to why MSFT won't do it.
Stupendous in technology @lemmy.world
Explained: Why you can't move Windows 11 taskbar like Windows 10, according to Microsoft
https://www.windowslatest.com/2025/12/19/why-you-cant-move-windows-11-taskbar-like-windows-10/Saved you a click.
Seriously, only go there for the facepalms.
In every version of Windows up until now which has contained a taskbar and start menu, as far back as Windows 95. Not just Windows 10. Let's not sell short the full extent idiocy on display, here.
"Pouring its engineering resources," my ass.
In the launch version of windows 11 and for over TWO YEARS it didn't even support drag&drop. It was working fine even on windows me
Drag and drop worked on windows 3.1. That was like the whole thing. "LOOK WHAT YOU CAN DO NOW!"
At this point, I'm fairly sure pissing people off is the point with Windows 11. It's full of AI no one wants, refuses to officially run on most hardware that people already have, despite running just fine on that same hardware UNofficially, dropped support for drag and drop, doesn't let you move the taskbar.
And thats not even to mention the fact that it monitors you, and reports back to HQ with screen grabs and usage activity.
Oh look, ZorinOS, just one singular distro, had 1.6 million downloads in the past 2 months.
Wait, is there any special thing that happened 2 months ago? Oh right. Windows 10 support ended, and microsoft told its userbase "fuck you, you can't get support for windows 10, and this computer can't update to windows 11. This computer is now trash!"
Suddenly all these youtube videos pop up "Is your PC unable to install windows 11? Try linux!"
And these videos don't try to sway you to one distro or another. They point out a few big hitters like mint or ubuntu. I can't imagine them specifically naming zorin, unless it's a zorin centric video. But I'm talking about the flood of "try linux" videos that popped up in October.
And that 1.6 million is JUST zorin. That's the runoff. I don't have numbers, or sources, but gut instinct tells me that if Zorin had 1.6 million downloads, Mint must have had like 5 million minimum. Every video always reccomends Mint. It's probably overtaken Ubuntu at some point as most used distro.
And all of this, every single bit of user loss has NOTHING to do with linux. Users are angrily switching. Not happily. They feel abandoned, and forced to switch.
If Microsoft either extended Windows 10 support, or allowed Windows 11 to be installed on reasonable hardware, this linux boom DOES NOT HAPPEN. This is Microsoft saying "Yeah bitch, money is tight! Go buy another computer, loser! You'll do what we say, and there's nothing you can do to stop us!"
That's when users switched to linux. This is pure hubris from Microsoft. It would be interesting if somehow we could get a combined number of EVERY distros doenload numbers.
It also has a very poorly written UI interface that's fucking infuriating. I was reverse engineering it to figure out why it's so damn slow on HDDs, with explorer.exe rendering like shit, the Start menu crawling, and taskbar popups that make you want to smash your screen. They wrote really really fucking bad code compared to the Win7 daysâbasically just took the old MFC crap and slapped a XAML wrapper on it to make it look "nice." What a fucking disaster.
Uh, what? Can you clarify what you mean by "drag&drop"? Because dragging and dropping files or text around within or between application windows definitely worked even when Win 11 was new, so you're probably talking about some specific instance, I assume?
And it kind of makes sense to have the taskbar at the right or left on a widescreen monitor as there is so much space there
What does making sense have to do with MS-Windows?
Windows 98 felt as if it was very sensible (when it didn't hang). Windows 2000 Server I still remember as the best one. XP was too bright in visual design, but homely.
Sadly not true. Microsoft removed the Start button in a version of Windows before. It was in Windows 8 (and Windows Server 2012 for some godforsaken reason) with the cursed "metro" interface. MS did it for the same stupid reason they're citing here "tablet and touchscreen users". The uproar caused MS to release Windows 8.1 a year later where they returned the Start button.
Windows 8 and metro were not so bad compared to what's happening now. They at least had a consistent picture in mind. I liked those things even if I wouldn't use them (moved firmly to Linux by then).
My own humble opinion is that Windows in all its parts (perhaps except NT and basic layers) is as a project too much legacy. Simply existed too long with backwards support for various versions of involved libraries, with MS carrying the burden of maintaining old versions (while applications developers could package them similarly to how they package patched versions). Many tools to do the same thing.
They should put all that on life support, installable separately, and make a clean set of libraries and tools that forms their new normal desktop installation. Preferably tabula rasa, no compromises.
A file manager, a configuration manager, a set of desktop widgets. It'll take them much less effort and time to just write a new set of tools.
A normal configuration manager supporting all that it should is the hardest thing. But it'll also be the killer feature, imagine one UI to configure everything in a Windows installation, it'd be as cool as YaST2 in OpenSUSE or drakconf. IIRC, their system configuration tools for Windows 98 were a bit more user-friendly than NT-inherited for 2000 and XP, and haven't (the old ones) improved much since then ; they can fix that.
That means dropping backwards compatibility for such a clean installation - well, who wants to run old applications, will run them in, sigh, that installable compatibility environment (might be cut down somehow).
I'm almost certain that'll be both cheaper and more popular among users than what they are doing.
The also killed their UI performance previously when Vista first launched. Remember Aero?
They didn't say that every version of windows since then had a start button
First of all they only talked about the start menu, which was still part of 8, even if it was annoying and full-screen. And second they only said that every Windows version that had that allowed you to move the taskbar around. Not that every Windows version so far had it.
The years of engineering salaries and test versions to dock a visual element at the top, instead of the bottom...
Maybe MS couldn't stuff enough ads into the old Start Menu requiring a re-write to allow for more ad space. /s
WHAT DATA?!
They asked chatgpt
But, only after not getting an answer from Copilot.
Same thing.
The data they have compiled from years of people using Win 10 and Msoft Edge.
If they were using that data, then they would have included features people actually use in 10. Or maybe theyâre just doing the inverse of whatever the data suggests.
It's the data of what corners MS can cut to save more money than they lose when x number of users decide enough is enough.
Or maybe you're overestimating the amount of people who actually used that. Spending effort on something that less than maybe 1% of users actually use and that is not load bearing to any important workflows is hard to argue for when you're a corp that is only concerned about its own bottom line. It's a pretty rational business decision, even if you (and I) disagree with it.
Which is why if you dig deep enough into Settings you'll see WinXP Control Panel UI elements. You know, the elements that are actually useful for power users.
There's a format dialog from NT still present in win 11
edit: it's from 1994 according to the person who wrote it
The main one I use is the network adaptor settings, where you can enable/disable protocols and most importantly for me, where you can easily add multiple IP addresses on a network adaptor.
The Win 8+ network settings page is an absolute trainwreck. I particularly like how it doesn't warn about conflicting IP addresses now and just silently accepts your given address and provides an auto-assigned 169.254 address instead if it sees even the smallest hint of another computer out there using the address you want to use.
Guaranteed fun and confusion trying to access/ping things until you finally check the status of the network adaptor and discover the auto assigned address, thanks Microsoft.
Not everyone wants to use dhcp, which is clearly their preferred direction, and there have been bugs where Cisco devices trigger that flip to auto assigned addresses even if things are fine.
Most of the old settings are at least easily reached if you can remember their names such as ncpa.cpl for the settings you mention but when you write "control printers" you get sent into the new Settings view now. Instead you gotta go to the control panel and change view from category to small or large icons to finally right click Devices and Printers and choose "open in a new window" to get there. If you left click it you get sent to the new Settings view.
It seems that every new release adds another layer of indirection (misdirection?) between you and the useful stuff you need to access. I use a third party utility to manage IP settings, and it's one click from its menu to get to the network adapter page. It takes me about 5 minutes of angry clicking around in stock standard win11 before I get to the same place.
Data can say whatever the hell you want if you lack scruples.
Two data points: What their intern could do with React; what their intern couldnât do with React.
It's Microsoft, they have all the data. And quite frankly it doesn't surprise even a little bit, i doubt even 5% of people moved around the taskbar, people are just ready to hitch themselves to every bandwagon they see shitting on Microsoft.
In that case, based on the roughly 1.5 billion Windows users, thatâll only affect a mere 75 million users for a feature thatâs been there since Windows 95.
The equation they are thinking of, though, is "will the cost of those who actually quit using Windows outweigh the cost of building and maintaining this feature." Funnily enough the inability to move the taskbar is what finally pushed me to Linux full-time, but the overwhelming majority will complain and stick to Windows.
the reason is literally "because we decided not to implement it"
Saved you a click.
I'm one of the few who has had it at the top for as long as I can remember. It absolutely infuriated me to find out the feature had been removed.
Im more of a left-side guy, but i share your pain
Asking for things like AI integration everywhere?
Wouldn't it be cool if you could have AI on the desktop clock so you could ask it what time it was in different places in the world?
I was going to make a joke that they could also replace the taskbar search bar with an AI chat bar, but after reading the article, it turns out that they're planning on doing that for real:
Your best sarcastic self is prime Microsoft material.
This is madness. Madness? This is Wiiiiindoooows.
Why the hell ...
They could just make another application. With compact mode to have as a prompt in the corner of the screen, similar to DigiCam or Winamp or other such.
They could even eventually deprecate tools allowing to do the same things it provides.
I can even say that conversational user interfaces are not all idiocy - at some point I dreamed of them replacing all the bright buttons and icons we have.
People making this are not idiots.
But putting a conversational user interface everywhere people expect to have one prompt and a response, preferably with clear logic of that response, - it's just socially hostile behavior.
There really is progress behind this! Or, more precisely, there is sanity, it's not all hype. Making a useful GUI requires learning something about ergonomics and human psychology and tests, most UI designers don't have a clue. And a conversational interface, like in old text quests or MUDs and with these AI chatbots, solves the problem. It doesn't require memorizing a thousand commands and interpreter syntax like a command shell.
Unless you make a UI with downsides of both and upsides of neither. Takes Microsoft to do this.
The people making it might not be idiots, but the people making the design decisions are
Didn't they try something similar with Cortana, and were thoroughly rejected?
Or you could have a widget just showing it for a few timezones. FvwmButtons,
Exec exec date ...andSchedule Periodic ...in FVWM can do that.Translation: Nobody really knows (or wants to take the blame), we probably just forgot to put on the feature list. Anyway, I'll just use the usual vague weasel-words that don't really mean anything.
"Window's is built on many layers of shit and we dont know what will or won't break things.
Also co pilot was really expensive"
Also, please use copilot... please
Just one more ai tool bro just one more.
Please bro its so good you gotta use them all to make it worth it.
This is written as if a taskbar were a complex piece of software. It has to display a window list, a start button, a few shortcuts and a tray, right?
Nothing is trivial, but they are a company that can buy some nation-states with their citizens as slaves. Surely they can buy that much labor.
Google for stories about how it is configured or built. The old taskbar was endlessly complex.
Which would mean it should have been rewritten long before. =\
It was working fine in windows 95. Suddenly all programmers became incompetent and can't handle something like that?
This makes no sense to me what so ever. Why do any apps care about where the taskbar is? How's it any different when a window isn't maximised and the user resizes it? Either I'm seriously misunderstanding this or it's a completely made up excuse.
I'd rather they just say "we completely rewrote the taskbar, but we know that less than 0.01% of users move their taskbar so we didn't prioritize it".
To me the bigger issue with the taskbar is that you can't make it compact. Instead it has to be a big chunky mess.
The bit about apps having to reflow seems nonsensical. They have to reflow any time the user resizes their windows.
I'm not accepting any excuses from MS about limited resources when Linux desktop environments built by hobbyists have the feature in question.
The whole operating system is even named after that concept.
Yeah, sounds like bullshit. I don't even see why that particular concern would create more work on the OS's part.
If an application fits "wonderfully" into the space it's given, Windows did nothing but telling it the dimensions it needs to fill. And as you said those dimensions can vary wildly.
Yeah especially considering you can install 3rd party solutions to dock the taskbar to the left which work perfectly fine
That might be a bit obsolete as a state of things. Like 15 years obsolete.
Please, consider trying out linux if you haven't: you can usually make a "live usb" and take it for a test drive without having to actually reinstall (if you don't like it, just take the usb stick out and reboot back to windows).
I would dearly love to never again have to hear about the latest bullshit Microsoft is foisting on people.
Do your part! Switch. Everything just works better over here.
A word of caution: If you use bitlocker (copy your keys!), it can have hooks in the TPM/bios settings.
Disable bitlocker prior to attempting a live boot.
It will lock your disk if you don't prepare for it.
For reference:
https://www.linuxliteos.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=9145
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=430251
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/bitlocker-and-tpm-blocks-the-hard-disk-after-booting-from-usb-and-pressing-try-ubuntu/57833/17
Letâs be real, itâs because it makes it easier to train AIs on the Recall screenshots if it always has the taskbar in the same position as a reference context
Four years ago, Recall wasn't a thing. Microsoft was caught as off-guard by the AI hype machine as the rest of us. So I doubt this was originally the reason.
Might be now, though.
This is such a weird take. Recall wasnât even a glimmer in M$âs eye when this limitation was introduced. And it would take virtually nothing to add positions to the training, never mind the fact that they could just completely ignore the taskbar since the OS always knows where it is.
Further the containers contain the info, so the position on the users' screen is rather irrelevant.
WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!
If you have working code, why would you rewrite it from scratch? Refactor, sure. Overhaul, maybe. But why rewrite the whole thing?! You're gaining nothing but unnecessary bugs.
I know all the joke answers. To justify a product manager's salary, because Microsoft gonna Microsoft, whatever. I want to know the real reason. Why would you ever rewrite working code from scratch if you don't have to?
Probably to add something terrible for the user but good for MS. Ad integration? Easier to spy?
That's fair, but even with that, it's got to be easier to shove it into existing code. Especially if you're trying to do it in a way that people don't notice!
And actually, the Windows 10 start menu infamously had ads, too. So it can't be that.
Could be that refactoring the code for Windows 11 compatibility, and new features, would have been roughly equivalent in effort to rebuilding. If the code has been poked and probed for years already, still follows old patterns, and have devolved into a tightly coupled mess of scattered system dependancies⌠maybe it just becomes easier to justify rebuilding it as a way of clearing out technical debt?
The people responsible only had experience with React, so they rebuilt it using React.
I assume the code was just too old and convoluted to maintain properly. I'm a bad coder so I've definitely redone parts of my scripts from scratch rather than trying to refactor them.
Then again I'm not a small billion dollar indie company who's main focuses are spying on users and helping to commit genocide.
There exist some horror stories about the code but I have no idea how to find them.
I'd guess it's for the same reasons why we can't have a local account
I mean, they could just let their awesome Copilot vibe code it, couldn't they? Another reasons why I love being on Linux; you can do whatever even it it doesn't make sense to the majority of users.
Like half of open source is just devs trying to satisfy their very specific needs
This is one of the best proofs that the AI industry is full of bullshit. If we can let the AI code everything now, where are our leaps in traditional, existing software?
AI is very good at writing code but it's not good code.
Even if it will brick your system.
Every copy on Linux is personalised. Most are on the brink of collapse.
If they could do math, they'd know that you should fit every decision for all users you can think about, not the majority. Because the majority is different for every dimension, and if you choose a different strategy, your end result won't be usable for anyone.
I can't move the Windows 11 taskbar because I've been running Linux for over 20 years. Recommended fix!
Yeah, KDE ftw
Linux is missing enterprise management tools. For all its horrible flaws, nothing like SCCM, In tune, group policy, and Active Directory (in the sense of managing group policy, not so much identity) exist for Linux. Fix that, even commercially, and you might see a real change.
I thought LLM would code this in a matter of minutes without wasting money away on human work hours? What is going on Microsoft?
-50 social points, it will impact your 365 licenses on a monthly bases
"We specifically made the product worse, because that saves us money we don't need and gives us additional control over users' computers, since so many are locked into our ecosystem."
Seriously, read the article. That's basically it!
I think you're overinterpreting a bit. Actually the MS-droid doesn't really say anything. Just that the taskbar is not movable. Which was exactly the question.Typical evasion strategy.
he literally said it was not one of the features cherry picked to be reimplemented. So he did say, paraphrased, "because we couldn't be bothered"
You mean the apps that were already handling this for decades when windows wasn't a vibe-coded and ad-infested vehicle for AI slop?
Yeah this doesn't make sense. Docked bars have worked fine since Windows 95. You could have the task bar on any side, and apps would handle it. You could have multiple docked bars too, as some third-party apps used to be dockable. For example, Winamp had a view that was a short bar stretching the entire width of the screen, stuck to the top of the screen. The windowing system handled it with no issues.
Laughs in KDE
If it takes so much effort to move the taskbar, why did it need to be fully rewritten in react native when everything worked before?
This almost makes me want to move my panel in Plasma just because I can.
My Plasma Panel is on the top and I wouldn't want it anywhere else.
My wife was given a new work computer. Windows 11 and not enough RAM. She has been finding a new reason to hate it nearly every day, starting with how every change made to windows has fucked up her workflow in some way.
Me just nodding in acknowledgement as my little Dell Inspiron 15 purs along on Mint with Cinnamon.
Meanwhile KDE:
Put the taskbar wherever you want it's even floating if there isn't a window nearby.
Different design pressures. KDE knowing they put in the work to keep it versatile now, they will always have more options in the future.
Microsoft is basically admitting they have no future.
Can you have different taskbar setup depending on the number of monitors and have it change automatically when you connect/disconnect external monitors?
Yes, my work laptop has this with a 1, 2 or 3 monitor setup. It adapts as it detects the screens.
Yes! I'm not sure about it changing when you connect monitors (since I'm usually using desktop PCs), but you can have a different setup per monitor.
I have three monitors at work. My main monitor is configured to show all open apps in the taskbar, while the secondary monitors only show the apps opened on those monitors. You can totally change any of the configuration though... the layout, the position, the settings, or even just not have a taskbar on some monitors.
TLDR: We rewrote the taskbar and didn't bother implementing it.
No exaggeration, this was my breaking point for switching to linux exclusively.
Same.
It's not even unreasonable. If this is the kind of incompetence guides something as simple as the task bar, I don't want to think about how fucked the rest of the code is.
Windows 11 is a bloated disaster. I urge everyone to switch to Linux or one of the BSDs.
Also switch away from Microsoft Office and use LibreOffice.
Using BSDs is for Unix fetishists, honestly. I've been such. It's very pleasant to use FreeBSD on supported configuration, or OpenBSD on supported configuration and when you don't need anything impossible (like Wine).
But when you are a normal person who just wants to do normal things and live, Linux is more likely to be the thing, and Fedora will do.
In practice. In theory you might think you'd like GuixSD or NixOS, but in practice you won't spend the time on setting them up. Or Slackware, but it's even more bother. Or Arch, but it's too messy, stuff breaks and it's normal. You either want experience similar to BSDs or lack of bother similar to BSDs. For the former, there are plenty of distributions with ideology to spend days on setting up. For the latter, just install Fedora.
I'm using Void because that's what I installed the last time and forgot. But if I were choosing now, I'd probably, yes, just install Fedora.
And it's a shame they are slowly killing Windows. It could have been a nice desktop OS. There's some cultural similarity to Amiga that isn't felt under Unix-likes. And NT is interesting to read about.
I hope we'll have more pluralism in future. On the humus of today's tech.
Jokes on them I decided to give macOS a shake when it was time for a new laptop.
People are fleeing into Linux & MacOS in droves. If this trend holds, Ms will lose majority in ~8 years.
How can we make that 2?
Microsoft's already on it.
I sourced a new desktop to install Linux and move my plex server once I get some new drives to put them in the proper format. Iâll be giving it to Microsoft from both ends ;)
Not gonna happen in some industry where you get zero application support for Linux or MacOS.
All in good time. Many industries are already moving to web, which is OS agnostic. And it's easier than ever to recompile a native program for different OSes.
It really seems like Windows really needs KDE to come back to the platform...
Is this what hearing Vogon Poetry is like?
My screen is 2160px tall and 3840 pixels wide. If itâs at the bottom, I waste nearly 1.8 times the number of pixels.
Microsoftâs excuse about app design and layout is straight bullshit because I can make application windows any size and ratio I want.
Is the explanation, âBecause Windows 11 is shittyâ?
The whole explanation about screen size is telling.
The entire point of Windows being named Windows is that apps can run inside these resizable rectangles nicknamed windows.
Yet the rectangular taskbar is apparently impossible to handle...
It's never been done before, and can never be done after, obviously. Not a chance. Nope. It's not like it worked before, not like windows placement is not really the business of the taskbar app, not like it works with almost every other DE/OS, too.
Absolutely impossible. Microsoft, that apparently did not make windows up until now otherwise they'd know this explanation is pure bullshit, have absolutely no way, no resources, no knowledge on how to setup the available rectangular area on the screen for window placement. Nope.
Why can't they just ask copilot to program that for them?
Imagine letting your computer decide how you're gonna use it đ
For anyone interested, Google the app called WindHawk. It makes it extremely possible to push the taskbar up.
My screen is wider than it is tall. I have more horizontal screen real estate than vertical, why are you forcing me to waste vertical space? I wanna move it to the left again...
So many people at work are having frustrating issues with Windows now.
It takes so fucking long to start up. Sure, you get a desktop and can open a program, but it just keeps locking up repeatedly for a good 20 minutes while whatever bloatware is running in the background during startup.
They cram OneDrive down your throat and it has constant issues.
They put so much shit in your way, in the name of "productivity" it makes your actual productivity worse.
FUCK COPILOT.
It's the one drive cramming that really gets me, well also changing the right click context menu to hide cut and paste, wtf.
But seriously, not letting you move the Onedrive pin down the hotlinks sidebar out of the way? Extremely annoying.
Join team Linux!
https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/
Costs money but works with only minor quirks when switching between iGPU and dGPU.
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7dccb8ee-c492-4acb-aae7-de2c296cfa03.png
This is handy for home users, but at work I am stuck. Installing third party software is not allowed.
The amount of bullshit is incredible. The DE sets the windows position. The DE tells the apps what's the "usable" desktop area. It worked for decades. And now "you can't imagine the amount of work"
Fuck you microsoft. Not that I care anymore. Even your excuses are pathetic.
Microsoft UI "designers" need to be beaten with frozen braids of 3 foot long licorice ropes.
It is lost technology⌠only the powerful ancients could accomplish such.
Or those familiar with the dark arts.
Why would applications have to consider relayouting? Isn't that entirely in the hand of the Windows taskbar?
It shows the window groups, windows, pops over previews of windows or tabs in a consistent style, presumably owned by the taskbar itself. At no point do applications themselves control their positions or size in the taskbar or the taskbar popovers.
Dont care, its where the task bar should go, and I should be able to configure it.
Luckily, someone has got an actual solution. Check out WindHawk. I use it to run a vertical taskbar.
"vibe coding"
When you buy a pc with mac os, you are usually stuck with it, at least for some time. When you buy a pc with windows, you can usually just uninstall it and install something else.
Good explanation. They couldnât checks notes be fucked
laughs in KDE
The taskbar items can't have a constant width. Your whole taskbar layout changes when you change a tab in Firefox. You have to open a set of programs from right to left, because any other order will change the positions of the items you want to click.
When not combining windows, in Windows 10 you could order them to your preference and usefulness. Now, you're stuck. Even when not combined, the items are combined in one block, and you can't order them within the block either.
I was briefly a star at work when all of the terminals updated to Win 11. I was the only dude that knew how to move the start button back to the lower left corner.
Just ask ai to do it?
I think I'm done with people complaining about windows. This isn't 2012 and there's plenty of really good alternatives nowadays. How about instead of moaning you put in the leg work and try something new??
IT department says no.
IT department is a bunch of lazy fucks who can't be arses trying something else.
At least on a Mac we can choose bottom or left! Wild that Microsoft won't give Windows users the option.
Of course you could say Mac is dorky with its always on menu bar at the top, but I quite like it. Even on my laptop with a notch it's not terrible. And I like the status bar (right side of the menu bar).
And of course on Linux you can just have it any which way you want it.
I still generally prefer windowing on Windows 11 to macOS Tahoe. Since Sequoia (the last version) we've had basic windowing (and before that, free apps like Rectangle to shoehorn it in), but what Microsoft started with Aero Snap in Windows 7 has never been "the Mac way." I think the old Mac users prefer a controlled chaos on their desktop. I like a more elegant setup. I like how I have Windows set up at work. It doesn't quite work as well on Mac, to try to do the same thing, but I wouldn't trade my Mac for something like my work PC, even if it could play more games.
They just don't want you to customise your computer in any way, huh.
Soon you'd be prevented from changing your wallpaper.
They'll only allow those generated using Copilot.
Quote from Microsoft..."You will be happy in your work!". /s
Windhawk and ExplorerPatcher will allow this while windows still resize correctly, so it's a mystery to me as to why MSFT won't do it.