Seriously, where are 99% of the life begins at conception people on the meat industry?
ALQ - 10mon
If you're really being serious, then the answer is that most (or, at least, the vocal majority) of those people don't even really care about living children. I don't see that type of person generally giving any more care to a non-human being than they would a human being, and they already don't care about people other than themselves.
"Pro-life" has always been a misnomer. More honest descriptions would be "anti-choice" or "pro-forced birth."
96
SlopppyEngineer @lemmy.world - 10mon
Pro-life
In their mind, is still just breeding more cheap disposable labor
23
cogman @lemmy.world - 10mon
It's anti-woman.
The real true reason most people are against abortion isn't because they don't believe it's a necessity. It's because they are afraid that some woman won't be punished for having sex. Whether or not the fetus survives isn't the point, it's that someone has to be punished for enjoying life.
16
usernamesAreTricky @lemmy.ml - 10mon
Serious in that they should stand up for non-human animals, but in the kind of way where you also know the answer as to why 99% aren't
Why else do they constantly vote and campaign against measures to improve children's lives?
19
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
Well, most christians here would not agree with americans on many issues, christianity is not the problem.
2
Da Bald Eagul - 10mon
I haven't seen Christianity mentioned in the post, or the comment you're replying to... And neither have been edited.
19
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
Yeah, in my defense, my head hurts like shit and I can barely think.
Christians are usually the ones against abortions, and it seemed to me the people the original comment was talking about were conservative christians, but I see how my comment is not entirely relevant.
4
Da Bald Eagul - 10mon
Fair enough, I have that too sometimes
2
A_Very_Big_Fan @lemmy.world - 10mon
The ice grows thinner...
4
DragonsInARoom @lemmy.world - 10mon
One single HUMAN cell, everyone knows humans are above all animals
34
PigStyle @lemmy.world - 10mon
Some of them explain this away with "Humans have souls, animals don't".
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usernamesAreTricky @lemmy.ml - 10mon
And yet many can be up in arms about dogs & cats being eaten in some regions despite that claim
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riwo - 10mon
dogs go to dog heaven, duh
of they got souls! /s
7
Amon - 10mon
I don't care what species it is
I have three requirements for meat:
It isn't human flesh
It isn't rotten
It's cooked properly
1
desktop_user [they/them] - 10mon
what about sushi?
0
Amon - 10mon
im going to assume the chef knows what they're doing
1
PigStyle @lemmy.world - 10mon
This is a great counterpoint, ill have to remember it next time I'm having a discussion about the subject.
1
SlopppyEngineer @lemmy.world - 10mon
Apparently that soul doesn't matter when trying to prevent it from dying from preventable diseases with vaccines and nurturing it with affordable education.
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Glytchrider - 10mon
Don't you know it's much more preferable for your child to die of a preventable illness than for them to get autism from vaccines which is totally a thing that happens?
/s of course
4
SlopppyEngineer @lemmy.world - 10mon
It's even worse. One of the contributing factors for autism is fine dust particles in pollution from fossil fuels. And the ones against vaccines are often also the ones for fossil fuels.
3
Nat (she/they) - 10mon
When I infodump for 2 hours straight I can see why they would prefer if I died /s
2
Iheartcheese @lemmy.world - 10mon
Yeah but if babies were delicious we would eat them too
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usernamesAreTricky @lemmy.ml - 10mon
Is this implying you know for certain that human babies aren't? Maybe we should be a little concerned how you figured that one out
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Iheartcheese @lemmy.world - 10mon
So I ate a baby big whoop wanna fight about it?
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usernamesAreTricky @lemmy.ml - 10mon
Baby Big Whoop? Damn there's a whole product line now?
Some cultures that actually have cannibalism refer to human flesh as "long pig" or similar because of the resemblance.
3
lars @lemmy.sdf.org - 10mon
They are pro-birth. They are absolutely not pro-life.
16
celeste - 10mon
I think they're anti-woman.
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大きいＢＯＹ - 10mon
Think? We fucking know.
8
Midnitte @beehaw.org - 10mon
That explains the obsession with cows' milk...
Anytime someone throws a fit about noncows milk being called milk, "Like, you know why they produce milk, right?"
2
OccultIconoclast @reddthat.com - 10mon
It's racism. They think human lives are more important than other races.
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pankuleczkapl @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 10mon
It is so prevalent that this type of bigotry actually has its own name: specieism
30
Druid - 10mon
beat me to it (by only 11h :D)
2
Druid - 10mon
Speciesism, but yes
4
OccultIconoclast @reddthat.com - 10mon
The human race thinks they're the supreme race, better than the other races.
2
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
Yes, exactly. The complexity of the human soul is uncomparable to the basic impulses of any animal.
3
Amon - 10mon
A single cell
8
Olgratin_Magmatoe @slrpnk.net - 10mon
Where exactly in the single cell is the soul stored?
6
dandelion (she/her) - 10mon
<waves hands mystically>
5
OccultIconoclast @reddthat.com - 10mon
Embryos don't have souls. The soul develops during the third trimester.
If you can play music into your belly and get a kick, that thing has a soul. But there's a lot of time where it's not that developed.
3
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
Poor choice of words on my part, perhaps. Maybe, if I chose "mind, instead of the more poetic word "soul" people would not reply about how an embryo is not ensouled.
But please tell me, was your original comment about racism towards animals sarcastic? It is sometimes hard to tell, and it seems almost like a position someone would hold.
2
OccultIconoclast @reddthat.com - 10mon
I'm genuinely a vegan because I think racism is wrong.
Single cells don't have a mind either. Minds are made of neurons. An embryo begins developing neural cells during the fifth week of development. That's just a few neurons, though, not a full brain. A fetus doesn't get smart enough to process sounds until the late second. If a mind isn't even complex enough to process any sensory information, is it more deserving of life than a cow? Cows like to run in the grass and play. They have social relationships. Fetuses aren't that complex.
1
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
Obviously I am not talking about fetuses. I responded to the racism comment and the inner lives of people are generally not that complicated when tbey are in the womb. I am just using this as a reason to value humans over animals.
Also, minds are not made out of neurons, brains are.
2
OccultIconoclast @reddthat.com - 10mon
If one human's inner life were more complex than another's, would you value their life more?
1
galanthus @lemmy.world - 10mon
No, I wouldn't.
While humans and animals have inner worlds that are orders of magnitude apart in terms of complexity, I would say that most people feel more or less the same emotions, but of course some people are more self-actualised, but everyone has the potential for that, even if it is not realised.
And it is impossible to compare this complexity in practice, of course, as there are no criteria for measuring that. Also, every human is unique in a sense and is valuable precisely because of that.
Ultimately, our values are impossible to defend. We can either share them or not, I do not care much about the animals, you do, this is fine by me.
2
FruitLips @lemmy.ml - 10mon
Says what, some ancient text?
3
nautilus @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 10mon
Definitely seems the type to make Star Wars analogies
1
PapaStevesy @lemmy.world - 10mon
I'm still waiting for them to stop celebrating birthdays.
6
TankovayaDiviziya @lemmy.world - 10mon
But that's different!
Honestly though, is "but it's different" a proper informal fallacy?
6
usernamesAreTricky @lemmy.ml - 10mon
Not quite identical, but there are some that are close
I think that being vegan/vegetarian is more ethical than eating meat due to the use of resources, treatment of animals etc.
But this kind of dumbass shit doesn't help your cause.
3
stray @pawb.social - 10mon
I don't understand your stance. Being vegan is more ethical, but eating meat is necessary? Surely if meat is necessary then an omnivorous diet is most ethical?
6
Skullgrid @lemmy.world - 10mon
the song is meant to be what the conception people think, but...
it is necessary for certain people, and it's easier to achieve certain things by eating meat/animal products. I am an omnivore, but I understand that veganism is more ideal, I just don't have the capability of achieving it (I can't even eat properly on an omnivore diet).
5
driving_crooner @lemmy.eco.br - 10mon
I was just listening yesterday to this episode of Citations Needed
Citations Needed: Episode 80: Animal Rights as Media and Pop Culture Punchline
usernamesAreTricky in 196
"Pro-Life" Rule
Seriously, where are 99% of the life begins at conception people on the meat industry?
If you're really being serious, then the answer is that most (or, at least, the vocal majority) of those people don't even really care about living children. I don't see that type of person generally giving any more care to a non-human being than they would a human being, and they already don't care about people other than themselves.
"Pro-life" has always been a misnomer. More honest descriptions would be "anti-choice" or "pro-forced birth."
In their mind, is still just breeding more cheap disposable labor
It's anti-woman.
The real true reason most people are against abortion isn't because they don't believe it's a necessity. It's because they are afraid that some woman won't be punished for having sex. Whether or not the fetus survives isn't the point, it's that someone has to be punished for enjoying life.
Serious in that they should stand up for non-human animals, but in the kind of way where you also know the answer as to why 99% aren't
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3d61eea7-dd2c-4ae0-ac7d-3fe56bd6eab6.jpeg
Why else do they constantly vote and campaign against measures to improve children's lives?
Well, most christians here would not agree with americans on many issues, christianity is not the problem.
I haven't seen Christianity mentioned in the post, or the comment you're replying to... And neither have been edited.
Yeah, in my defense, my head hurts like shit and I can barely think.
Christians are usually the ones against abortions, and it seemed to me the people the original comment was talking about were conservative christians, but I see how my comment is not entirely relevant.
Fair enough, I have that too sometimes
The ice grows thinner...
One single HUMAN cell, everyone knows humans are above all animals
Some of them explain this away with "Humans have souls, animals don't".
And yet many can be up in arms about dogs & cats being eaten in some regions despite that claim
dogs go to dog heaven, duh
of they got souls! /s
I don't care what species it is
I have three requirements for meat:
what about sushi?
im going to assume the chef knows what they're doing
This is a great counterpoint, ill have to remember it next time I'm having a discussion about the subject.
Apparently that soul doesn't matter when trying to prevent it from dying from preventable diseases with vaccines and nurturing it with affordable education.
Don't you know it's much more preferable for your child to die of a preventable illness than for them to get autism from vaccines which is totally a thing that happens?
/s of course
It's even worse. One of the contributing factors for autism is fine dust particles in pollution from fossil fuels. And the ones against vaccines are often also the ones for fossil fuels.
When I infodump for 2 hours straight I can see why they would prefer if I died /s
Yeah but if babies were delicious we would eat them too
Is this implying you know for certain that human babies aren't? Maybe we should be a little concerned how you figured that one out
So I ate a baby big whoop wanna fight about it?
Baby Big Whoop? Damn there's a whole product line now?
I've got a modest proposal for you...
I wanted to say that but wasn't swift enough.
I'm told humans taste like pork.
Some cultures that actually have cannibalism refer to human flesh as "long pig" or similar because of the resemblance.
They are pro-birth. They are absolutely not pro-life.
I think they're anti-woman.
Think? We fucking know.
That explains the obsession with cows' milk...
Anytime someone throws a fit about noncows milk being called milk, "Like, you know why they produce milk, right?"
It's racism. They think human lives are more important than other races.
It is so prevalent that this type of bigotry actually has its own name: specieism
beat me to it (by only 11h :D)
Speciesism, but yes
The human race thinks they're the supreme race, better than the other races.
Yes, exactly. The complexity of the human soul is uncomparable to the basic impulses of any animal.
A single cell
Where exactly in the single cell is the soul stored?
<waves hands mystically>
Embryos don't have souls. The soul develops during the third trimester.
If you can play music into your belly and get a kick, that thing has a soul. But there's a lot of time where it's not that developed.
Poor choice of words on my part, perhaps. Maybe, if I chose "mind, instead of the more poetic word "soul" people would not reply about how an embryo is not ensouled.
But please tell me, was your original comment about racism towards animals sarcastic? It is sometimes hard to tell, and it seems almost like a position someone would hold.
I'm genuinely a vegan because I think racism is wrong.
Single cells don't have a mind either. Minds are made of neurons. An embryo begins developing neural cells during the fifth week of development. That's just a few neurons, though, not a full brain. A fetus doesn't get smart enough to process sounds until the late second. If a mind isn't even complex enough to process any sensory information, is it more deserving of life than a cow? Cows like to run in the grass and play. They have social relationships. Fetuses aren't that complex.
Obviously I am not talking about fetuses. I responded to the racism comment and the inner lives of people are generally not that complicated when tbey are in the womb. I am just using this as a reason to value humans over animals.
Also, minds are not made out of neurons, brains are.
If one human's inner life were more complex than another's, would you value their life more?
No, I wouldn't.
While humans and animals have inner worlds that are orders of magnitude apart in terms of complexity, I would say that most people feel more or less the same emotions, but of course some people are more self-actualised, but everyone has the potential for that, even if it is not realised.
And it is impossible to compare this complexity in practice, of course, as there are no criteria for measuring that. Also, every human is unique in a sense and is valuable precisely because of that.
Ultimately, our values are impossible to defend. We can either share them or not, I do not care much about the animals, you do, this is fine by me.
Says what, some ancient text?
Definitely seems the type to make Star Wars analogies
I'm still waiting for them to stop celebrating birthdays.
But that's different!
Honestly though, is "but it's different" a proper informal fallacy?
Not quite identical, but there are some that are close
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone
I think "but it's different" is actually just special pleading:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading
@TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
hunting and eating steaks, singing
This is necessary, life feeds on life feeds on life...
I think that being vegan/vegetarian is more ethical than eating meat due to the use of resources, treatment of animals etc.
But this kind of dumbass shit doesn't help your cause.
I don't understand your stance. Being vegan is more ethical, but eating meat is necessary? Surely if meat is necessary then an omnivorous diet is most ethical?
the song is meant to be what the conception people think, but...
it is necessary for certain people, and it's easier to achieve certain things by eating meat/animal products. I am an omnivore, but I understand that veganism is more ideal, I just don't have the capability of achieving it (I can't even eat properly on an omnivore diet).
I was just listening yesterday to this episode of Citations Needed
Citations Needed: Episode 80: Animal Rights as Media and Pop Culture Punchline
Episode webpage: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/citationsneeded/CN80_20190619_animal_rights_Gruen_Ko.mp3
Media file: https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/secure/citationsneeded/CN80_20190619_animal_rights_Gruen_Ko.mp3?dest-id=542191