Reminder: "US bad" is not a valid argument for "Russia good"
152
lad - 1.1yr
Yes, it's literally non sequitur. And a very popular propaganda move: [country A] is good because [country B] is worse. In fact, it usually is not even relatively good if there's a need for such 'argument'
33
Railcar8095 @lemm.ee - 1.1yr
*confused tankie noises
17
FundMECFS - 1.1yr
149
FundMECFS - 1.1yr
(in a similar vein)
There is a third choice, where you say both are bad (ie. anarchists and pure marxists). But most people on lemmy.ML are Marxist Leninists (ML) who simp for authotarian states that call themselves socialist, like Russia, China, and North Korea.
120
theonlytruescotsman @sh.itjust.works - 1.1yr
What country is that?
2
FundMECFS - 1.0yr
China, North Korea etc
7
lugal @sopuli.xyz - 1.1yr
Stalin says to Kropotkin: "The difference between us is that you're an aristocrat while I'm from the working class."
Kropotkin answer: "True, but we also have something in common: We are both class traitors."
43
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
That was Kruschev and China's Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Every time this gets reposted I need to point out that it is spelled: "You are not an anti-imperialist"
English is stupid.
32
Valmond @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
French:
A beautiful man:
Un <= masculin (A)
Homme <= masculin (Man)
So the adjective should be masculine, right?
But as homme 1) starts with a H and the word does not have nordic descent, it's not the masculine 'beaux' but feminine :
Un bel homme.
But not belle eh, just bel (they obviously sound exactly the same).
Because, it sounds better.
Which language was stupid now again?
It's crazy humanity can communicate at all.
11
fosho @lemmy.ca - 1.1yr
but neither are necessary. someone could just be anti imperialist.
4
regdog @lemmy.world - 1.0yr
Don't be an party pooper
1
Draconic NEO - 1.0yr
What I want to know is, despite the amount of Hexbear brain rot over there why we are still federated with them? It seems really weird to continue to give them platform on our instances.
2
PugJesus @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
They're just fascists.
31
obre @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
The tankies are out in full force in this thread.
29
istdaslol @feddit.org - 1.1yr
Man, why did I stumble on this thread after the tankies got deleted
25
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
"America should stop sending bombs to its puppet" is not supporting Russia.
22
TotallynotJessica @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
Way to downplay the self determination of smaller countries! Ukraine allies with the US for the same reason Vietnam often sides with the US over China: the empire next door is a bigger problem than the empire on the other side of the planet. The US is the lesser evil in those situations, especially in Ukraine's case.
The alternative is being an actual puppet to an empire that sees you as nothing but a buffer and a breadbasket. Being under the thumb of a reformed empire that inflicted famine and genocide on you and other neighbors. The ethnic Russian makeup of post Soviet countries isn't a mistake, but an example of deliberate imperialism by that Russian empire.
In terms of this disrespect, Ukraine got of easy compared to countries like Kazakhstan. I don't care how much you complain about landowners in Ukraine, I dare you to defend the population control and environmental destruction there as anything less than imperialist cruelty.
The Soviet Union was a red-washed Russian empire, not some model system that was much different than the liberty-clad American empire. It was not made of equal states, but a dominant power squeezing the rest. Nationalistic bullshit is what the selfish turn to when capitalism runs its course, and that's what this tankie bullshit is: counter-revolutionary garbage where nothing fundamentally changes. The answers will never be that easy.
83
Tar_Alcaran - 1.1yr
The ethnic Russian makeup of post Soviet countries isn't a mistake, but an example of deliberate imperialism by that Russian empire.
Indeed. it's the result of genocide. A genocide still ongoing in Ukraine as we speak. Which is something we should be mentioning a lot more
52
RogueBanana @lemmy.zip - 1.1yr
But.. But.. Nazis or some shit, its perfectly fine since they are all Nazis for sure. We will save Ukraine with this 3 day operation.
20
TankovayaDiviziya @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
"Russia should stop sending bombs to its puppet" is not supporting the US.
33
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
I concur. Sadly I do not live in Russia and can't call up Putin and tell him to knock it off.
10
TankovayaDiviziya @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
You know very well that Putin will knock you off the window if you said that.
21
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
Give me his number and I'll call him. I hear he's doing things in Georgia, lets see if he comes up to SC to throw me out a window.
3
Valmond @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
That makes it evem more wild that you seem to support him.
20
wandermind @sopuli.xyz - 1.1yr
It is when those bombs are actively helping to stop Russian imperialism.
29
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
Those bombs are blowing up people in Ukraine, statistically in America's conflicts, it's like 10 civilians to 140 for every "enemy combatant", and I doubt the Ukrainian conscripts are more disciplined and trained than America is.
Do you genuinely believe America has any interest at all in improving conditions for the people of Ukraine? Has that been true one single time since WWII?
There's 3 parties here who can unilaterally end the war that has killed or wounded over a million and displaced millions more, America, Russia, and Ukraine.
9
germanatlas - 1.1yr
Oh, how can Ukraine end the war without essentially giving up and letting Russia win territories through this imperialistic war?
33
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
Its only choice is how many of it's kids they want to send into a meatgrinder trying to hold onto the Russian-speaking territories whose people it didn't seem to like very much before the invasion, and it seems to like even less now.
There's no realistic way for Ukraine to push Russia out, let alone deal with the resulting insurgency. Same applies if Russia tried to hold the Ukrainian-majority territories. Actually they're probably in for an insurgency either way given their conduct.
5
germanatlas - 1.1yr
Lots of words for saying "they can’t"
24
wandermind @sopuli.xyz - 1.1yr
statistically in America’s conflicts, it’s like 10 civilians to 140 for every “enemy combatant”, and I doubt the Ukrainian conscripts are more disciplined and trained than America is
Surely you understand the very different nature of America's recent conflicts (air strikes on small numbers of militants living among civilians) to the war in Ukraine (frontlines where civilians have been evacuated and every building has been destroyed). Or taking your numbers of 10 to 140 civilians for every enemy combatant, are you suggesting that Ukrainian soldiers have killed on the order of a million to ten million civilians as "collateral damage"?
Do you genuinely believe America has any interest at all in improving conditions for the people of Ukraine?
I believe that is irrelevant to the Ukrainians. They are happy to get any support they can to help fight off their would-be oppressors. Whether or not America is interested in improving the conditions for the people of Ukraine, it only takes one look at Russia and then at the EU to see where the common people have a better standard of living.
There’s 3 parties here who can unilaterally end the war that has killed or wounded over a million and displaced millions more, America, Russia, and Ukraine.
Of those three, only Russia can end the war unilaterally with no downsides to any party. Ukraine can only end the war unilaterally if they want to be subjugated under Russian oppression. I fail to see how America could end the war unilaterally. Even if they cut all military support to Ukraine, Ukrainians will keep fighting because they do not want to be ruled by Russia.
29
frezik @midwest.social - 1.1yr
"Trump just wants to save America". That's what you sound like.
16
alcoholicorn @lemmy.ml - 1.1yr
I am under no impression that Putin wants to save Ukraine. I am observing that what is happening is far worse than if they had agreed to the peace deal they had in 2022, and far far worse than if they simply enforced the minsk II agreement.
6
the_toast_is_gone @lemmy.world - 1.1yr
It would have been better if Russia had abided by the Minsk II agreement. Better yet, if the Budapest memorandum had been enforced and Russia not invaded its sovereign neighbor to begin with. But power is the only language Russia speaks.
24
humanspiral @lemmy.ca - 1.0yr
Not clear how Russia didn't abide by Minsk. Ukraine/west are the ones who didn't abide. You're saying running out of patience is "not abiding"?
1
frezik @midwest.social - 1.1yr
None of which is the primary reason people criticize ml instances, and you know it.
6
Annoyed_🦀 - 1.1yr
"America should stop sending bombs to its puppet" is not supporting Russia.
It's like saying lobbying to continue the usage of fossil fuel is not supporting oil company.
15
orca @orcas.enjoying.yachts - 1.1yr
Simping for any government leadership is just gross. These people don’t actually care about protecting the working class; they just want power, money, and recognition. As soon as you put a human into that role, they corrupt in one way or another. It’s why I clarify that I support the struggling working class under any ruler. The fight is always about them and ensuring they have human rights and a right to self-determination.
Every person I’ve met in my lifetime that lived under communism had nothing good to say about it, and they were all working class. Some pasty white dudes in America don’t know shit about that and never will. They get into a fantasy loop because living under capitalism fucking sucks, and dreaming about something perceived as better is understandable.
I recommend people read Marx and keep trying to unite the working class. Take the good pieces and stop idolizing people. As soon as you idolize a person, you are incapable of being able to identify when they do or say something terrible.
21
hungryphrog - 1.1yr
Sorry for your notifications OP, I went through the same thing when I posted this here.
16
BerenstainsMonster - 1.1yr
First it was fun watching the argument unfold. Now it's annoying lol. Thank you, kind stranger.
13
istdaslol @feddit.org - 1.1yr
Pro Tipp: turn off notifications; just post a spicy comment and return 6h later to view the carnage
4
BerenstainsMonster - 1.1yr
Alas, I'm not sure how to do that here on Kbin.
2
hungryphrog - 1.1yr
Should we start a peer-support group?
4
BerenstainsMonster - 1.1yr
Sure! Maybe we can be called Survivors of Poking the Campist Hive lmao.
6
Infomatics90 @lemmy.ca - 1.1yr
lol pootin. RIP BOZO
6
humanspiral @lemmy.ca - 1.0yr
So many US empire simps here mistake opposition to their evil, and counterproductive diminishment of Americans and Europeans who simp for the empire, as supporting the Russian non-empire who needs to defend itself, and understands fully, despite any absurd propaganda to the contrary, that it needs to defend itself from US empire attempting to demonically diminish it.
Your propaganda bubble means you cannot and will never have nice things, including any climate supporting human sustainability. Heads are so far empire ass, that advising you it stinks up there, only makes you understand it as an order to move to Russia.
BerenstainsMonster in 196
rule when .ml simps for putin
https://media.kbin.earth/e1/fb/e1fb3ab7a59d941fe040b1a696e5d5c0d197fea3a6579f918271d19355348dd7.webpReminder: "US bad" is not a valid argument for "Russia good"
Yes, it's literally non sequitur. And a very popular propaganda move: [country A] is good because [country B] is worse. In fact, it usually is not even relatively good if there's a need for such 'argument'
*confused tankie noises
(in a similar vein)
There is a third choice, where you say both are bad (ie. anarchists and pure marxists). But most people on lemmy.ML are Marxist Leninists (ML) who simp for authotarian states that call themselves socialist, like Russia, China, and North Korea.
What country is that?
China, North Korea etc
Stalin says to Kropotkin: "The difference between us is that you're an aristocrat while I'm from the working class."
Kropotkin answer: "True, but we also have something in common: We are both class traitors."
That was Kruschev and China's Minister of Foreign Affairs.
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/03/weekinreview/the-world-15-years-after-zhou-s-death-his-image-is-larger-than-life.html
Based
At least get the people in the quote right.
Every time this gets reposted I need to point out that it is spelled: "You are not an anti-imperialist"
English is stupid.
French:
A beautiful man:
Un <= masculin (A)
Homme <= masculin (Man)
So the adjective should be masculine, right?
But as homme 1) starts with a H and the word does not have nordic descent, it's not the masculine 'beaux' but feminine :
Un bel homme.
But not belle eh, just bel (they obviously sound exactly the same).
Because, it sounds better.
Which language was stupid now again?
It's crazy humanity can communicate at all.
but neither are necessary. someone could just be anti imperialist.
Don't be an party pooper
What I want to know is, despite the amount of Hexbear brain rot over there why we are still federated with them? It seems really weird to continue to give them platform on our instances.
They're just fascists.
The tankies are out in full force in this thread.
Man, why did I stumble on this thread after the tankies got deleted
"America should stop sending bombs to its puppet" is not supporting Russia.
Way to downplay the self determination of smaller countries! Ukraine allies with the US for the same reason Vietnam often sides with the US over China: the empire next door is a bigger problem than the empire on the other side of the planet. The US is the lesser evil in those situations, especially in Ukraine's case.
The alternative is being an actual puppet to an empire that sees you as nothing but a buffer and a breadbasket. Being under the thumb of a reformed empire that inflicted famine and genocide on you and other neighbors. The ethnic Russian makeup of post Soviet countries isn't a mistake, but an example of deliberate imperialism by that Russian empire.
In terms of this disrespect, Ukraine got of easy compared to countries like Kazakhstan. I don't care how much you complain about landowners in Ukraine, I dare you to defend the population control and environmental destruction there as anything less than imperialist cruelty.
The Soviet Union was a red-washed Russian empire, not some model system that was much different than the liberty-clad American empire. It was not made of equal states, but a dominant power squeezing the rest. Nationalistic bullshit is what the selfish turn to when capitalism runs its course, and that's what this tankie bullshit is: counter-revolutionary garbage where nothing fundamentally changes. The answers will never be that easy.
Indeed. it's the result of genocide. A genocide still ongoing in Ukraine as we speak. Which is something we should be mentioning a lot more
But.. But.. Nazis or some shit, its perfectly fine since they are all Nazis for sure. We will save Ukraine with this 3 day operation.
"Russia should stop sending bombs to its puppet" is not supporting the US.
I concur. Sadly I do not live in Russia and can't call up Putin and tell him to knock it off.
You know very well that Putin will knock you off the window if you said that.
Give me his number and I'll call him. I hear he's doing things in Georgia, lets see if he comes up to SC to throw me out a window.
That makes it evem more wild that you seem to support him.
It is when those bombs are actively helping to stop Russian imperialism.
Those bombs are blowing up people in Ukraine, statistically in America's conflicts, it's like 10 civilians to 140 for every "enemy combatant", and I doubt the Ukrainian conscripts are more disciplined and trained than America is.
Do you genuinely believe America has any interest at all in improving conditions for the people of Ukraine? Has that been true one single time since WWII?
There's 3 parties here who can unilaterally end the war that has killed or wounded over a million and displaced millions more, America, Russia, and Ukraine.
Oh, how can Ukraine end the war without essentially giving up and letting Russia win territories through this imperialistic war?
Its only choice is how many of it's kids they want to send into a meatgrinder trying to hold onto the Russian-speaking territories whose people it didn't seem to like very much before the invasion, and it seems to like even less now.
There's no realistic way for Ukraine to push Russia out, let alone deal with the resulting insurgency. Same applies if Russia tried to hold the Ukrainian-majority territories. Actually they're probably in for an insurgency either way given their conduct.
Lots of words for saying "they can’t"
Surely you understand the very different nature of America's recent conflicts (air strikes on small numbers of militants living among civilians) to the war in Ukraine (frontlines where civilians have been evacuated and every building has been destroyed). Or taking your numbers of 10 to 140 civilians for every enemy combatant, are you suggesting that Ukrainian soldiers have killed on the order of a million to ten million civilians as "collateral damage"?
I believe that is irrelevant to the Ukrainians. They are happy to get any support they can to help fight off their would-be oppressors. Whether or not America is interested in improving the conditions for the people of Ukraine, it only takes one look at Russia and then at the EU to see where the common people have a better standard of living.
Of those three, only Russia can end the war unilaterally with no downsides to any party. Ukraine can only end the war unilaterally if they want to be subjugated under Russian oppression. I fail to see how America could end the war unilaterally. Even if they cut all military support to Ukraine, Ukrainians will keep fighting because they do not want to be ruled by Russia.
"Trump just wants to save America". That's what you sound like.
I am under no impression that Putin wants to save Ukraine. I am observing that what is happening is far worse than if they had agreed to the peace deal they had in 2022, and far far worse than if they simply enforced the minsk II agreement.
It would have been better if Russia had abided by the Minsk II agreement. Better yet, if the Budapest memorandum had been enforced and Russia not invaded its sovereign neighbor to begin with. But power is the only language Russia speaks.
Not clear how Russia didn't abide by Minsk. Ukraine/west are the ones who didn't abide. You're saying running out of patience is "not abiding"?
None of which is the primary reason people criticize ml instances, and you know it.
It's like saying lobbying to continue the usage of fossil fuel is not supporting oil company.
Simping for any government leadership is just gross. These people don’t actually care about protecting the working class; they just want power, money, and recognition. As soon as you put a human into that role, they corrupt in one way or another. It’s why I clarify that I support the struggling working class under any ruler. The fight is always about them and ensuring they have human rights and a right to self-determination.
Every person I’ve met in my lifetime that lived under communism had nothing good to say about it, and they were all working class. Some pasty white dudes in America don’t know shit about that and never will. They get into a fantasy loop because living under capitalism fucking sucks, and dreaming about something perceived as better is understandable.
I recommend people read Marx and keep trying to unite the working class. Take the good pieces and stop idolizing people. As soon as you idolize a person, you are incapable of being able to identify when they do or say something terrible.
Sorry for your notifications OP, I went through the same thing when I posted this here.
First it was fun watching the argument unfold. Now it's annoying lol. Thank you, kind stranger.
Pro Tipp: turn off notifications; just post a spicy comment and return 6h later to view the carnage
Alas, I'm not sure how to do that here on Kbin.
Should we start a peer-support group?
Sure! Maybe we can be called Survivors of Poking the Campist Hive lmao.
lol pootin. RIP BOZO
So many US empire simps here mistake opposition to their evil, and counterproductive diminishment of Americans and Europeans who simp for the empire, as supporting the Russian non-empire who needs to defend itself, and understands fully, despite any absurd propaganda to the contrary, that it needs to defend itself from US empire attempting to demonically diminish it.
Your propaganda bubble means you cannot and will never have nice things, including any climate supporting human sustainability. Heads are so far empire ass, that advising you it stinks up there, only makes you understand it as an order to move to Russia.