This is actually so true. This is the realest thing. Before my physical transition, pronoun circles were so harmful to me thanks to experiencing the scenario in the OP, and now at this point, I don't care about them at all. But they have never been helpful to me.
I agree that other people will surely find it helpful if they wish to share their own pronouns; and they are also useful for creating an atmosphere of acceptance to make me feel more comfortable; but they do more harm than good when a person is forced to answer like in the situation in the OP. It hurts.
Cis people, here is how to do it: Feel free to present your own pronouns to convey an atmosphere of acceptance and reassurance, either verbally or in a signature/username/bio, but do not ask other people for their pronouns unless you actually really need to know. You only need to know if you are talking about the person to a third party.
It is also extremely performative and annoying when cis people only do the pronoun circle when there is a visibly trans person in the room. It's infantilising. Either you always offer your pronouns because you want to, or you never offer your pronouns because you don't want to.
Disclaimer: This is the humble onion of just one trans person and I don't respresent everybody.
81
kristina [she/her] - 2.7yr
damn this reminds me of that one time in college when i was boymoding and they were doing a round about on pronouns and fuckin EVERYONE in the class turned around to look what i said. they didnt do that to anyone else 💀
66
alexandra_kollontai [she/her] - 2.7yr
noooooooooooooo 🫥
12
RION [she/her] - 2.7yr
me when every job asks me to self identify my gender
56
MYWNcWR9Rgc31zkhTOsA [comrade/them] - 2.7yr
✅ prefer not to say
44
RION [she/her] - 2.7yr
ya that's what i answer each time. Still, I know they say it's not supposed to affect your chances of getting hired, but...
28
Kuori [she/her, pup/pup's] - 2.7yr
23
CrimsonSage [any] - 2.7yr
Similarly when pharmacies ask my agab for vaccines I lie like a boss.
6
Rania 🇩🇿 - 2.7yr
The first days of uni this year were the best for me because everyone referred to me using female pronouns, like one professor took 3 weeks to stop calling me "madmoizelle" and even a guy who I went to kindergarten with took a full minute to recognize me, and one time some girl apologized to me like this "hey dude... oh sorry you're a girl nvm" (it was in arabic), it was nice but after a while of me getting into depression and not being able to take care of my looks I no longer get called anything.
46
kristina [she/her] - 2.7yr
did you grow up in algeria? id love to pick your brain on trans experiences there, havent been able to talk to any trans people about algeria or north africa in general (if this is too forward lmk)
28
Rania 🇩🇿 - 2.7yr
I have issues in speech, I'd rather you ask very specific questions and I'd answer
26
kristina [she/her] - 2.7yr
would you prefer dms?
22
GalaxyBrain [they/them] - 2.7yr
I had to do this at a fucking PARTY once. This person who decided she was event coordinator for drinking in someone's apartment had us all sit in a circle and give our pronouns, a fact about ourself and our celebrity crush. Deeply painful moment, mostly cause it was cringe af for me. Ice breakers do the opposite.
46
RION [she/her] - 2.7yr
The virgin "giving every pronoun variation"
Vs
The Chad "giving the first two or just 'X series' because you can easily intuit the rest unless they're stated otherwise"
Once you get to the fourth (and arguably the third) you're just playin with yourself
33
christian [he/him, any] - 2.7yr
Idiot here, on that point why is the second one needed? Does anyone ever pair "he" with something other than "him"?
7
CrimsonSage [any] - 2.7yr
Yes, you'll have to ask the enbies the specifics though.
8
Azarova [they/them] - 2.7yr
only cis people include the possessive pronoun
32
AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her] - 2.7yr
Ive seen people with neopronouns do it often because otherwise you might just not know what it is
21
Azarova [they/them] - 2.7yr
That's definitely fair, I should've clarified. Whenever I see She/Her/Hers or He/Him/His, 99% the time they're cis.
12
WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them] - 2.7yr
When would someone else use your possessive pronoun? If they were writing your biography? Has anyone ever differentiated them/themself?
6
lilypad [she/her, it/its] - 2.7yr
I mean, possessives and reflexives do show up. E.g. 'it's theirs' or 'she bought it herself'. That being said, unless youre using pronouns people arent assumedly familiar with theres no point in including the possessive and reflexive forms.
Arguably the inclusion of the object form is just because people were using pronouns that required it to be listed, such as 'hir', and so when people using they, she, or he pronouns went to include them in a bio or something they copied what others were doing, which was more neopronoun oriented. Idk im not an internet history scholar or anything if someone else knows more do chime in.
10
WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them] - 2.7yr
I've seen the object form be relevant when it comes to (s)he/they which isn't neo, but still differentiating.
Thank you for your insight!
4
lilypad [she/her, it/its] - 2.7yr
Oh now thats interesting, like, ive seen (and used myself for a time (but not anymore)) she/they as shorthand for she/her or they/them, i.e. both are acceptable. Now Im very interested in the idea(s) behind she as the subject and they as the object (sorry my language brain is going ooh aah over new shiny language stuff)
5
ZapataCadabra [he/him] - 2.7yr
Hey trans comrades, I got a question as a CIS. I work with teenagers and there's a decent amount of them that are trans or simply non conforming to CIS stereotypical looks. I substitute teach, so I usually don't know the names of students.
I've made a mistake before of needing to get a kid's attention and saying "excuse me young man/young lady" or "excuse me miss" or something like that. And they turn around and I've misgendered them. What's a gender neutral way to get the attention of someone that I can start using instead of gendered words?
26
Cromalin [she/her] - 2.7yr
if you type cis in all caps it makes it sound like you're referring to the group lead by the treacherous count dooku and not people who feel comfortable as their agab
also repeating what others say. try describing clothing, location, some physical attributes
38
ZapataCadabra [he/him] - 2.7yr
Sorry my brain autocorrects to all caps cis because I do, in fact, type often about the Confederacy of Independent Systems.
22
ElChapoDeChapo [he/him, comrade/them] - 2.7yr
if you type cis in all caps it makes it sound like you're referring to the group lead by the treacherous count dooku
To be fair, as a cis guy we do be doing that
19
corgiwithalaptop [any, love/loves] - 2.7yr
If you're age 25-35 and your inner circle isn't discussing the threacherous Count Dooku
25
ZapataCadabra [he/him] - 2.7yr
Yes I'm exactly that guy. Dudes rock.
11
kristina [she/her] - 2.7yr
"hey kid" in your oldest grandpa voice
35
SerLava [he/him] - 2.7yr
The only proper way to address children
23
ZapataCadabra [he/him] - 2.7yr
How do you do fellow school children?
11
star_wraith [he/him] - 2.7yr
What about “excuse me, you in the red hoodie there”? Something describing clothing, hair color, etc?
27
tamagotchicowboy [he/him] - 2.7yr
When I substitute taught I went off what said student was wearing 'ex you in the yellow shirt' assuming there's no uniform, if there was then I would tap their desk or just walk up to them and get attention. Usually direct is best anyway. I hated when the roster would be outdated so you could end up accidentally deadnaming students and get everyone off to a bad start, going by lastname helped but it might set a weird tone.
24
ZapataCadabra [he/him] - 2.7yr
I'm looking forward to being a full teacher because once I learn students names this won't be a problem.
17
Orannis62 [ze/hir] - 2.7yr
First off, fyi, cis isn't an acronym.
This can honestly be kinda hard because there aren't a lot of nongendered terms for this, and those that do exist would definitely feel othering in this context (in the same way that being the only person asked your pronouns in like a larger introductory context is othering). My thought would be to just use some (neutral! Be careful about that part!) physical descriptions, like "excuse me, student with the black hair". Otherwise, maybe you can make a loud noise (e.g. drop a textbook on your desk) and then get that person's attention specifically when they (and others) look? Otherwise physically go over and tap their shoulder.
None of those solutions are perfect and all of them are obviously contextual, but it's what I got
15
lilypad [she/her, it/its] - 2.7yr
Only one way to address unknown children
14
GreenTeaRedFlag [any] - 2.7yr
"cis" should be lower case. it's not an acronym, it's a latin prefix meaning "on the same side." Anyway, just say "excuse me." It's not like the direct address makes it more clear, given it isn't their name.
13
Lemmygradwontallowme [he/him, it/its] - 2.7yr
Well, you could use second person pronouns (eg. you/your) or use a noun like "youth"...
Idk, I'm out of ideas...
12
zifnab25 [he/him, any] - 2.7yr
For younger people, I've made extensive use of "kiddo" and "champ". But I do wish we had a proper gender neutral pronoun in English, if for no other reason than I'm constantly fucking up and misgendering people in my online D&D server, and its getting very embarrassing.
I don't know about bro, but "dude" is gender neutral in my neck of the woods.
5
tamagotchicowboy [he/him] - 2.7yr
I had to do this in college and I opted to leave it blank the first time I saw it in a humanities class after a great deal of inner turmoil, I was too scared of outing myself and all the consequences.
Cromalin in traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
trans saw
This is actually so true. This is the realest thing. Before my physical transition, pronoun circles were so harmful to me thanks to experiencing the scenario in the OP, and now at this point, I don't care about them at all. But they have never been helpful to me.
I agree that other people will surely find it helpful if they wish to share their own pronouns; and they are also useful for creating an atmosphere of acceptance to make me feel more comfortable; but they do more harm than good when a person is forced to answer like in the situation in the OP. It hurts.
Cis people, here is how to do it: Feel free to present your own pronouns to convey an atmosphere of acceptance and reassurance, either verbally or in a signature/username/bio, but do not ask other people for their pronouns unless you actually really need to know. You only need to know if you are talking about the person to a third party.
It is also extremely performative and annoying when cis people only do the pronoun circle when there is a visibly trans person in the room. It's infantilising. Either you always offer your pronouns because you want to, or you never offer your pronouns because you don't want to.
Disclaimer: This is the humble onion of just one trans person and I don't respresent everybody.
damn this reminds me of that one time in college when i was boymoding and they were doing a round about on pronouns and fuckin EVERYONE in the class turned around to look what i said. they didnt do that to anyone else 💀
noooooooooooooo 🫥
me when every job asks me to self identify my gender
✅ prefer not to say
ya that's what i answer each time. Still, I know they say it's not supposed to affect your chances of getting hired, but...
Similarly when pharmacies ask my agab for vaccines I lie like a boss.
The first days of uni this year were the best for me because everyone referred to me using female pronouns, like one professor took 3 weeks to stop calling me "madmoizelle" and even a guy who I went to kindergarten with took a full minute to recognize me, and one time some girl apologized to me like this "hey dude... oh sorry you're a girl nvm" (it was in arabic), it was nice but after a while of me getting into depression and not being able to take care of my looks I no longer get called anything.
did you grow up in algeria? id love to pick your brain on trans experiences there, havent been able to talk to any trans people about algeria or north africa in general (if this is too forward lmk)
I have issues in speech, I'd rather you ask very specific questions and I'd answer
would you prefer dms?
I had to do this at a fucking PARTY once. This person who decided she was event coordinator for drinking in someone's apartment had us all sit in a circle and give our pronouns, a fact about ourself and our celebrity crush. Deeply painful moment, mostly cause it was cringe af for me. Ice breakers do the opposite.
The virgin "giving every pronoun variation"
Vs
The Chad "giving the first two or just 'X series' because you can easily intuit the rest unless they're stated otherwise"
Once you get to the fourth (and arguably the third) you're just playin with yourself
Idiot here, on that point why is the second one needed? Does anyone ever pair "he" with something other than "him"?
Yes, you'll have to ask the enbies the specifics though.
only cis people include the possessive pronoun
Ive seen people with neopronouns do it often because otherwise you might just not know what it is
That's definitely fair, I should've clarified. Whenever I see She/Her/Hers or He/Him/His, 99% the time they're cis.
When would someone else use your possessive pronoun? If they were writing your biography? Has anyone ever differentiated them/themself?
I mean, possessives and reflexives do show up. E.g. 'it's theirs' or 'she bought it herself'. That being said, unless youre using pronouns people arent assumedly familiar with theres no point in including the possessive and reflexive forms.
Arguably the inclusion of the object form is just because people were using pronouns that required it to be listed, such as 'hir', and so when people using they, she, or he pronouns went to include them in a bio or something they copied what others were doing, which was more neopronoun oriented. Idk im not an internet history scholar or anything if someone else knows more do chime in.
I've seen the object form be relevant when it comes to (s)he/they which isn't neo, but still differentiating.
Thank you for your insight!
Oh now thats interesting, like, ive seen (and used myself for a time (but not anymore)) she/they as shorthand for she/her or they/them, i.e. both are acceptable. Now Im very interested in the idea(s) behind she as the subject and they as the object (sorry my language brain is going ooh aah over new shiny language stuff)
Hey trans comrades, I got a question as a CIS. I work with teenagers and there's a decent amount of them that are trans or simply non conforming to CIS stereotypical looks. I substitute teach, so I usually don't know the names of students.
I've made a mistake before of needing to get a kid's attention and saying "excuse me young man/young lady" or "excuse me miss" or something like that. And they turn around and I've misgendered them. What's a gender neutral way to get the attention of someone that I can start using instead of gendered words?
if you type cis in all caps it makes it sound like you're referring to the group lead by the treacherous count dooku and not people who feel comfortable as their agab
also repeating what others say. try describing clothing, location, some physical attributes
Sorry my brain autocorrects to all caps cis because I do, in fact, type often about the Confederacy of Independent Systems.
To be fair, as a cis guy we do be doing that
If you're age 25-35 and your inner circle isn't discussing the threacherous Count Dooku
Yes I'm exactly that guy. Dudes rock.
"hey kid" in your oldest grandpa voice
The only proper way to address children
How do you do fellow school children?
What about “excuse me, you in the red hoodie there”? Something describing clothing, hair color, etc?
When I substitute taught I went off what said student was wearing 'ex you in the yellow shirt' assuming there's no uniform, if there was then I would tap their desk or just walk up to them and get attention. Usually direct is best anyway. I hated when the roster would be outdated so you could end up accidentally deadnaming students and get everyone off to a bad start, going by lastname helped but it might set a weird tone.
I'm looking forward to being a full teacher because once I learn students names this won't be a problem.
First off, fyi, cis isn't an acronym.
This can honestly be kinda hard because there aren't a lot of nongendered terms for this, and those that do exist would definitely feel othering in this context (in the same way that being the only person asked your pronouns in like a larger introductory context is othering). My thought would be to just use some (neutral! Be careful about that part!) physical descriptions, like "excuse me, student with the black hair". Otherwise, maybe you can make a loud noise (e.g. drop a textbook on your desk) and then get that person's attention specifically when they (and others) look? Otherwise physically go over and tap their shoulder.
None of those solutions are perfect and all of them are obviously contextual, but it's what I got
Only one way to address unknown children
"cis" should be lower case. it's not an acronym, it's a latin prefix meaning "on the same side." Anyway, just say "excuse me." It's not like the direct address makes it more clear, given it isn't their name.
Well, you could use second person pronouns (eg. you/your) or use a noun like "youth"...
Idk, I'm out of ideas...
For younger people, I've made extensive use of "kiddo" and "champ". But I do wish we had a proper gender neutral pronoun in English, if for no other reason than I'm constantly fucking up and misgendering people in my online D&D server, and its getting very embarrassing.
Hmm, I never thought of kid and champ...
i know one way
I just call them all "bro" and use inflection to let them know if they're fucking up.
id rather not be called 'bro'
I don't know about bro, but "dude" is gender neutral in my neck of the woods.
I had to do this in college and I opted to leave it blank the first time I saw it in a humanities class after a great deal of inner turmoil, I was too scared of outing myself and all the consequences.
Any pronouns 🙌
michael scott kissing oscar