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How are libs gonna react when Ukraine loses?

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ghosts [he/him] - 3day

Yankees might just not accept that Ukraine lost. The maps will stay the same, they'll start wearing "Slava Ukraini" shirts, and they'll be calling Russia "East Ukraine" until 2065

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juniper [none/use name] - 3day

they'll be calling Russia "East Ukraine" until 2065 America also collapses

I couldn't resist a little r*ddit "FTFY"

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ghosts [he/him] - 3day

same-picture

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juniper [none/use name] - 3day

Brother for the sake of the biosphere it's gotta be sooner than that

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

Idk

Only American libs I've met who give a shit that much about Ukraine are usually super redditors. Most don't care that much IMHO.

I think it's much more of a European lib thing

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GalaxyBrain [they/them] - 3day

Qe are super weird about it in Canada as well. Our public busses have a Stabd With Ukraine message on em

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

Canada is the #1 Nazi Liberal country on planet earth

At least American politicians no longer hide that they're Nazis, Canaidains are still doing smug 2015 liberalism with their Nazism and going "le drumpf"

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somename [she/her] - 3day

You still see people talking about how Crimea is Ukrainian, and that the Russians will be evicted any day now.

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jackmaoist [none/use name] - 3day

They'll move onto supporting a genocide in Venezuela

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GeckoChamber [he/him] - 3day

They are already laying the foundation for their own Stab-in-the-back myth

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

I think they're gonna try blaming Trump, but it won't work because the second the us actually pulls out some EU countries will as well.

It might work on the most radical of liberals but I think for the average lib if they see england and France pulling out when America does it works less

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FunkyStuff [he/him] - 3day

They 100% will blame Trump. My dad is totally convinced Trump has been paid off by Russia to abandon Europe, I think that's gonna be the most common narrative among liberals.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

I mean what if the US continues support and Ukraine still loses?

I'm convinced everything trump is doing is because he wants to give half of Ukraine away to Russia so the US gets the other half. But I don't think the Russians are biting so he isn't pulling out.

I think the us might not pull out and Ukraine still loses.

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RedSturgeon [she/her] - 3day

They will blame it on Winter. classic

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FuckyWucky [none/use name] - 3day

Blame Trump, that's what they've been doing. "Ukraine was going to build its own weapons but because of Trump they'll have to sign a deal with Russia"

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

European liberals blame trump now more than American ones I've noticed

American libs have largely moved to hating the Dems and gop equally (as we saw with Kamala floundering in the election)

European liberals have much worse trump derangement syndrome because they think he's personally gonna give Ukraine to Russia

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Big [any, any] - 3day

I've thought about it a lot, and I'm almost confident enough to try to make a prediction. Keep in mind, I'm not a guy you should take predictions from.

In the liberal worldview, Ukraine doesn't actually exist. Like so many other things in the liberal (as in, pro-capitalism) mind, things like Ukraine occupy the same network of hollow symbols and concepts that only gets invoked to Argue about and obsess over.

Similar symbols in these networks are undefinable and hollow concepts like "freedom" "liberty" "freedom of speech" and so on.

It's not a war to them. Not really, it's a spectacle to observe, with narratives and thunderous rhetoric of "victory" and "bravery" and the best thing about the symbolic Ukraine is, that's all it requires of you. Watching it, like a TV show and gush over your favourite characters like zelinski, putin or Ivana Jagoff.

Even if the actual, real life Ukraine were to fall, it wouldn't register as a defeat, because that's incompatible with the symbol of Ukraine and the virtues assigned to it.

"Ukraine" if totally defeated, would still exist as a symbol of bravery and victory to these delusional libs, even as the surviving nazi mercenaries go amok and start terrorcampaigns all over europe as revenge for getting "stabbed in the back."

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axont [she/her, comrade/them] - 3day

Liberals will simply concoct a scenario where Ukraine losing is better than winning because of integrity or valor or some other intangible concept. Liberals are champs at losing so they'll just move on to the next thing they can clutch pearls about.

I'm sure they'll find a way to blame leftists on Twitter

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LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA [he/him] - 3day

Yep, it'll be "they lost because they are too honorable to sink to bombing civilians like the evil rooskies."

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

Which, of course, will be followed by "this is why we must commit genocide".

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CrawlMarks [he/him] - 3day

They will go to brunch and forget all about it. On the rare occasion they remember it they will just say something rascist then go back to brunch

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miz [any, any] - 3day

USA does a decades-long covert operation pushing nazis leading up to a coup with Victoria Nuland's hand-picked officials and the new regime begins ethnic cleansings: good and necessary

Russia crosses the magic sovereignty line in response: unforgiveable criminal behavior by the troglodytes which cannot be allowed, get me FIFA on the phone

(meanwhile the USA's colonial outpost blockades and bombs starving Palestinians in a livestreamed genocide)

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Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name] - 3day

If you bring up the ethnic cleansing people act like you're insane. It's not like I have some secret info. It's so weird. The invasion started with the US and Ukrainian governments saying Russia would invade on a certain day, and then when it wouldn't happen the Ukranian military would escalate the shelling of the DPR and LPR cities. Finally Russia invaded. I can't think of any way to see this except they were trying to force Russia to intervene.

This is exactly what happened, right? I would love to be wrong on this so I could have the normal liberal opinion.

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PolandIsAStateOfMind @lemmygrad.ml - 2day

Yes this is exactly what happened, Russia invaded during active mobilisation of AFU preparing for massive strike at Donbas which would end with high scale ethnic cleansing.

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Bolshechick [she/her, it/its] - 3day

I think liberals in the US are just gonna forget/ move onto caring about another thing, most already have. You barely see Ukraine stuff anymore compared to a few years ago. In Europe idk, I imagine they might actually have to confront?

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

I agree with this. Outside of some twitter and reddit nafo liberals I don't think most Americans give a shit.

American liberals news cares but I think American foreign policy being so crue for so long l has made Americans not care about Ukraine.

European libs will do never forget but for Ukraine

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🏴حمید پیام عباسی🏴 - 3day

The American libs forgot about it, the Euro libs are going to sacrifice their social democracy for military spending and fascism against an imaginary threat cooked up by the military industrial complex.

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CarmineCatboy2 [he/him] - 3day

There are americans who, to this day, maintain that the US did not lose the Vietnam War.

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WittyProfileName2 [she/her] - 3day

Ol' Reliable - the stabbed in the back myth.

"Ukraine totally coulda won if Jews/Commies/Russian speaking Ukrainians/Hamas hadn't undermined the war effort with their scheming."

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FALGSConaut [comrade/them] - 3day

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BodyBySisyphus [he/him] - 3day

I'm sorry, have you not seen how much materiel (cw: lib) Ukraine has destroyed lately? Russia's economy is in free fall, their defeat is inevitable.

Seriously, though, it's gonna be denial til the collective amnesia kicks in just in time for the war with Venezuela to kick off.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

The second the war ends Europeans will go back to buying Russian gas and shit.

It will be so embarrassing for liberals

They've invested everything on the cope Ukraine will win

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P1d40n3 [he/him] - 3day

I think Europe has gone to far down the war rabbit hole to buy directly from Russia agai . I maybe wrong, but Europe is gearing up for a new world war.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

Europeans have viewed Russians as worse than the Nazis since Soviet soldiers took Berlin.

They still bought billions in Russian gas before the war

The European population will not notice or care, and the EU will never actually go to war against Russia.

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P1d40n3 [he/him] - 3day

I hope you are right.

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chgxvjh [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

Was russiophobia really that common pre euromaidan? I don't remember it that way.

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

It's in the background radiation of western political discourse for probably several centuries (especially the last one), but it has definitely gotten worse over the last few years. It's obviously just an extension of the European fear of "barbarians" (AKA the disgusting racism and xenophobia which justifies their constant genocides), which has been there for as long as Europe.

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RedSturgeon [she/her] - 3day

A lot of Europeans have been quietly waiting for the war to stop so we can go back to trading and doing capitalism with Russia.

You're obviously never going to hear this take much because it can get you fired from your job and it's a social taboo.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

European politicians 100% wish the war was over so they could deport Ukrainians and buy Russian oil

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chgxvjh [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

After spending hundreds of billions on lpg ship terminals and inside jobbing the gas pipelines?

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RedSturgeon [she/her] - 3day

They have fully bought into the idea that they are going to win and that USA is their reliable friend. That's why they humiliate themselves like this, but honestly I can't wrap my mind around their actions sometimes, surely USA has to be pulling the strings or something no way anyone would actually choose to be like that by their own free will.

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chgxvjh [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

Atlantic Council building

This is where the magic happens

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Dessa [she/her] - 3day

They'll blame Trump and move on

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Owl [he/him] - 3day

Same thing as when Biden pulled out of Afghanistan - a confused, wounded lashing out that lasts for weeks, then is forgotten entirely by the next news cycle.

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Abracadaniel [he/him] - 3day

Free Ukraine! 🇺🇦

Side note I was talking with a rad lib who thinks they're a leftist recently and Ukraine was a touchier subject than even the DPRK.

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ceoofanarchism - 3day

Use it to argue for massive militarization.

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FALGSConaut [comrade/them] - 3day

same-as-it-ever-was

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Beaver [he/him] - 3day

I'm wondering if the Russian approach will be to freeze the conflict, keeping it alive with a minimal ongoing investment. The war has been a really useful wedge for driving Europe and USA apart, and European rearmament is a pipe dream that can only turn into a boondoggle. That will drive libs crazy, of course - even a definitive Ukrainian loss would be some closure, and something they could whine about.

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CrawlMarks [he/him] - 3day

Waiting for the US to get bored and betray their allies is a pretty good bet.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

Trump isn't gonna get bored and betray Europe, he's hunting for a better deal with the Russians to extract as much wealth as possible out of Ukraine.

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Self_Sealing_Stem_Bolt [he/him, they/them] - 3day

Well, heres the "german" chancellor

⚡️ 🇩🇪 German Chancellor Friedrich Merz: "If Ukraine falls, Putin will never stop" "We must take 1938 as a historical example". "We should have realized this in 2014; if Ukraine falls, Putin will never stop". "In, it was not enough for (Hitler) to get the Sudeten region; similarly, Putin will not stop". "Those who think he will be satisfied with this should carefully analyze his strategy, documents, and speeches". "Putin's goal is to radically change the borders in Europe; he wants to restore the Soviet borders and establish the Soviet Union". ‏

So, not good

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

"We must take 1938 as a historical example"

Jesus fucking Christ remind me again who invaded Czechoslovakia and which countries allowed that to happen?

"We must do the things Adolf Hitler would have done because we project our own demonic racism onto our enemies" Germans please shut the fuck up forever and balkanize challenge. Literally the only lesson German liberals ever learned from WW2 and the Holocaust is "wow, I bet we can weaponize this so hard against the same people we victimized by doing it and against new groups!" Every German should be begging every person from every former Soviet state for forgiveness at all times, and the country shouldn't even fucking exist anymore, never mind have a standing army that is growing. If you feel so guilty for the Holocaust (which they don't, but they pretend to a lot more than they pretend to care about the 27 million Soviets they killed), why don't you try taking it out on yourselves for once! Fucking hell!

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Fidels_Beard [none/use name] - 3day

"On the Kraut Question"

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

marx


Much love to German comrades, the only people in Germany who seem to have an analysis of WW2 that actually is useful for anything other than militarism and laying the basis for fascism.

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Ferrous @lemmy.ml - 3day

Your contempt for Germans would make Nietzsche gush. If you haven't checked out how hard the man was roasting krauts, you might get a kick out of it.

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

Honestly, there have been (and are) a lot of cool and good Germans. They're just not mainstream in German society and politics. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep it in mind in case my reading list thins out!

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BeanisBrain [he/him, they/them] - 3day

We must take 1938 as a historical example

Extremely concerning coming from a German

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AssortedBiscuits [they/them] - 3day

"We must take 1938 as a historical example"

That so-called "German" nationhood is a world-historic mistake that humanity has collectively failed to correct?

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GenXen [he/him, any] - 3day

They'll set up an imaginative construct at how Ukraine would have Crimea and Donbas back if only Biden stayed in the general instead of top-cop.

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AssortedBiscuits [they/them] - 3day

"Uh aktually, PUTLER wants to completely genocide Ukrainians from existence and erase Ukraine from our collective memories, so the fact that Ukraine still exists in our hearts means PUTLER can never win."

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Amnesigenic - 3day

By coping poorly and learning absolutely nothing

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Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

MIC the EU and prepare for WW3 in 2040 with "modern" weapons (that you have no rare earths for) now that you've thrown away all the cold war stuff in the trash pile that is ukkkraine.

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Infamousblt [any] - 3day

It will be one part denial mixed with one part projection and it will all be ridiculous nonsense with only a whiff of factual basis behind it

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Noodles4dinner [none/use any] - 3day

I keep being told Russia is collapsing by these people. Any day now, lol.

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chgxvjh [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

German rearmament

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LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 3day

seen-this-one

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Nasalstrip [he/him] - 3day

I feel like they just won’t accept it lol

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Moidialectica [he/him, comrade/them] - 3day

People I meet entirely forgot about Ukraine, if anything Russia pops up it's usually a disagreement with Putin and the state now rather than being anti-warism.

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Hyper_red [she/her, she/her] - 3day

IDk where you live but here in Europe Liberals actively want to invade RUssia

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ClathrateG [none/use name] - 3day

Stabbed in back myth

They've been laying the groundwork with the 'agent Kraznov shit', echoing the original myth blaming commies at home for the defeat(how could it be possible the brave ukranians/germans lost? huh, logistics and supply what's that? more marxist bullshit I bet)

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Krono @lemmy.today - 3day

The military industrial complex will need another conflict to dump ~$80b/yr worth of weapons. The administration, no matter if it's D or R, will find another regional conflict to meddle in (or start a new one).

When the new conflict gets rolling, the propaganda machine will spin up and the libs will be mindlessly repeating whatever causus beli that the executive has invented.

Ukraine will be old news. Reconstruction is boring, it does not drive clicks. No one will pay attention. When is the last time you heard a news story about Iraq?

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ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] - 3day

Probably by coping with Vietnam style "but actually look at the K/DR" (which will also be laughably wrong)

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KuroXppi [they/them] - 3day

Korean/Democratic Republic

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Sickos [they/them, it/its] - 3day

Ukraine cannot fail, it can only be failed. /s

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Sickos [they/them, it/its] - 3day

{mission-accomplished|mission-accomplished-1mission-accomplished-2}

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MoreAmphibians [none/use name] - 3day

These brutish Afghan savages devious Asiatic Slavs failed to win the war in Afghanistan Ukraine despite us doing literally everything possible for them. I can't believe we ever considered these Arabs human considered these Slavs honorary whites. It didn't help that we were stabbed in the back by the Democrats Donald Trump who undermined all of America's efforts to win the war for them. This entire war was a mistake unlike the next one At least we didn't get any American troops killed so we are ready we fight in our next good war against China Russia China.

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PolandIsAStateOfMind @lemmygrad.ml - 2day

Libs already memoryholed Afghanistan, i seen them only using the name in context of "USSR lost, tankies L"

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MoreAmphibians [none/use name] - 2day

That was what I was trying to say, the same excuses as to why the US lost in Afghanistan but now applied to Ukraine with Afghanistan itself forgotten.

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fort_burp @feddit.nl - 3day

"America just isn't ready for a woman president"

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infuziSporg [e/em/eir] - 3day

Probably a When Prophecy Fails scenario, where they construe that the peace deal is actually a Ukrainian victory, and that

We can see this in the before/after analysis of Bakhmut, Pokrovsk, etc.

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unknownuserunknownlocation - 3day

Probably about how they reacted when Putin took Kiev in three days.

Oh, wait...

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Flyberius [comrade/them] - 3day

Like this ^

It's just a game to them

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MoreAmphibians [none/use name] - 3day

Russia has already lost by not defeating Ukraine before the mission timer ran out.

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Acute_Engles [he/him, any] - 3day

Did anyone on here ever say they believed that?

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MoreAmphibians [none/use name] - 3day

General Mark Milley did. That's who the quote comes from.

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Acute_Engles [he/him, any] - 3day

So then the poster just assumes any analysis that is positive to russia is something we believe?

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Ram_The_Manparts [he/him] - 2day

Basically yes

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Acute_Engles [he/him, any] - 2day

projection guess that explains a lot about their relationship to media

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