[CW: Child neglect] Nyaaa objectify your fellow man
ComradeSharkfucker - 3w
I actually cannot count the amount of times my parents directly referred to me as an "investment". Sometimes I wonder if I was attracted to communism as a reaction to them.
32
CriticalOtaku [he/him] - 3w
Get in the economy Shinji
23
forcefemjdwon [she/her] - 3w
The parent-child relationship is going to be a transactional one so long as there is property, which precedes capitalism. The purest expression of this shouldn't be viewed as exceptional, but rather as the penultimate moment in this historical dialectic. Otherwise you are going to get 'retvrn to extended family' reactionary socialism instead of family abolition.
23
Riffraffintheroom [none/use name] - 3w
I was gonna say wouldn’t this be even more true in a pre-capitalist agrarian society where one basically births employees?
12
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
People act differently under scarcity than when they have their basic needs met
11
Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them] - 3w
I feel this bigtime. Growing up it pretty much always felt like my parents only had kids so we could pay for their retirement. Jokes on them, I haven't spoken to them in over a decade(and never will again) and my shithead brother just mooches off of them instead of the other way around.
20
RindoGang - 3w
This is so fucking sad I don’t even have the words to explain my sadness. But I know this is how my dad and I see our relationship
18
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
I'm so sorry. I should be more careful with my posts and I think I might add a content warning.
It really is sad, we all deserve a better society that actually values each other and treats each other like human beings instead of things. You have value outside of what you can provide capital. Deep down I think we don't want to treat people badly, we're conditioned by a sick system to be this way.
18
BodyBySisyphus [he/him] - 3w
That's pretty much been the name of the game since agriculture. Kids have always been the retirement plan, it's why so many religions stress filial piety.
16
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
10
CharlieTheOctopus [he/him] - 3w
Surely communism would help with the objectification of children from the financial lens, but arent children of any society doomed to carry the burdens of their parents expectations? Seems like something that will not change to me, regardless of financial or social framing
14
forcefemjdwon [she/her] - 3w
It will change when childrearing is fully socialized, i.e., when biological material becomes purely incidental. I don't think we even need to abolish children for that.
10
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
Maybe, but we won't know until we try.
8
RedSturgeon [she/her] - 3w
Even if that happens, in a socialist state (idk enough about communism) there would at least be facilities that are collectively maintained, to help youth without a family support and families without youth support.
I'm thinking it would lead to blood ties eventually becoming less and less relevant, which in itself would disincentivize the practice of making a child just for the sake of them being <insert specific thing here> because why does it matte if it's specifically your child who became XYZ?
2
alexei_1917 [mirror/your pronouns] - 3w
My dad literally refers to me and my brother as investments, and he does not hide that he doesn't like me because I've failed to provide satisfactory material return on that investment. He's said more than once that the only reason to have kids is so that you can make someone else do the household chores and so that you have guaranteed elder care, and he's very upset that neither of us were compliant and willing to jump immediately to every demand when we were little and that because he treats us as investments and assets he's angry at for low returns rather than human beings, neither of us actually like him enough to give a shit what happens to him in old age. Though I guess it doesn't matter, he probably knows all that and is expecting to still be cared for well just to make our mum happy. Why should he treat the kids like people he loves rather than poorly performing investment assets, when he'll still get all the benefits of being a good parent as long as he's a romantic item with the parent who actually treats us as people?
I wonder if that early and constant window into how capitalism sees human beings as just another source of wealth, and destroys us just as it destroys nature, is what ultimately made me a communist... and why I had obvious left tendencies from a very early age. (Got called a pinko the first time when I was about five. Got the idiot Cold Warrior who said it to describe what a communist is. He described a sensible individual who understands sharing and community. I told him as much. Was then called a communist in even harsher words. Agreed that I was one, to make the argument stop. Got in a lot of trouble.)
13
infuziSporg [e/em/eir] - 3w
I like Maria Montessori's take better, that (to paraphrase it) children are the original underclass as a group that have limited access to resources, lesser physical (and in some cases mental) abilities, and less capability to advocate for themselves.
12
KuroXppi [they/them] - 3w
"I don't really want to have kids"
"Who will look after you when you're old?"
9
barrbaric [he/him] - 3w
My retirement plan is to die in the water wars.
10
BilduEnjoyer [he/him] - 3w
Idk the community of found family of varying ages that I helped build through sharing resources and knowledge?
5
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
has pcos and couldn't have children even if they wanted them
5
Kefla [she/her, they/them] - 3w
You could always adopt which is better in basically every way than making a child
But I don't want to raise kids either sooo
6
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
I don't think I'd be a very good parent, unfortunately.
But yes I agree.
6
larrikin99 [none/use name] - 3w
this is why i dont pay child support.
7
KeenFlame @feddit.nu - 3w
We get a cocktail of hormones and emotional regulators when and before we have kids and our bodies are truly built to want to reproduce, capitalism is just capitalising on the fact by default.
2
Awoo [she/her] - 3w
our bodies are truly built to want to reproduce
I think this is not correct and deserves pushback. Are gay people truly built to want to reproduce? Ace?
I think this focus on reproduction is wrong. Human social behaviour evolved beyond that, or we wouldn't have very easy examples of non-reproductive behaviour at a massive scale like this.
We are built to desire closeness to others. We're built to want to bond. Form connections. And sex is even a part of that. But it's not the desire to reproduce, that occurring is an offshoot of all these other social elements playing together.
The people pushing the idea that we are biologically wired to reproduce are people that want social shame to occur for people who do not reproduce. It is to the benefit of capitalists who want more soldiers and more labourers to push this shaming of everyone who does not reproduce as failures of biological design.
A great many of us are demonstrably not built to want to reproduce. We are built to want to love and be close, but that is quite different to reproduction.
14
Dort_Owl [they/them, any] - 3w
Our bodies are capable of a lot of things, should the need arise.
Dort_Owl in memes
[CW: Child neglect] Nyaaa objectify your fellow man
I actually cannot count the amount of times my parents directly referred to me as an "investment". Sometimes I wonder if I was attracted to communism as a reaction to them.
Get in the economy Shinji
The parent-child relationship is going to be a transactional one so long as there is property, which precedes capitalism. The purest expression of this shouldn't be viewed as exceptional, but rather as the penultimate moment in this historical dialectic. Otherwise you are going to get 'retvrn to extended family' reactionary socialism instead of family abolition.
I was gonna say wouldn’t this be even more true in a pre-capitalist agrarian society where one basically births employees?
People act differently under scarcity than when they have their basic needs met
I feel this bigtime. Growing up it pretty much always felt like my parents only had kids so we could pay for their retirement. Jokes on them, I haven't spoken to them in over a decade(and never will again) and my shithead brother just mooches off of them instead of the other way around.
This is so fucking sad I don’t even have the words to explain my sadness. But I know this is how my dad and I see our relationship
I'm so sorry. I should be more careful with my posts and I think I might add a content warning.
It really is sad, we all deserve a better society that actually values each other and treats each other like human beings instead of things. You have value outside of what you can provide capital. Deep down I think we don't want to treat people badly, we're conditioned by a sick system to be this way.
That's pretty much been the name of the game since agriculture. Kids have always been the retirement plan, it's why so many religions stress filial piety.
Surely communism would help with the objectification of children from the financial lens, but arent children of any society doomed to carry the burdens of their parents expectations? Seems like something that will not change to me, regardless of financial or social framing
It will change when childrearing is fully socialized, i.e., when biological material becomes purely incidental. I don't think we even need to abolish children for that.
Maybe, but we won't know until we try.
Even if that happens, in a socialist state (idk enough about communism) there would at least be facilities that are collectively maintained, to help youth without a family support and families without youth support.
I'm thinking it would lead to blood ties eventually becoming less and less relevant, which in itself would disincentivize the practice of making a child just for the sake of them being <insert specific thing here> because why does it matte if it's specifically your child who became XYZ?
My dad literally refers to me and my brother as investments, and he does not hide that he doesn't like me because I've failed to provide satisfactory material return on that investment. He's said more than once that the only reason to have kids is so that you can make someone else do the household chores and so that you have guaranteed elder care, and he's very upset that neither of us were compliant and willing to jump immediately to every demand when we were little and that because he treats us as investments and assets he's angry at for low returns rather than human beings, neither of us actually like him enough to give a shit what happens to him in old age. Though I guess it doesn't matter, he probably knows all that and is expecting to still be cared for well just to make our mum happy. Why should he treat the kids like people he loves rather than poorly performing investment assets, when he'll still get all the benefits of being a good parent as long as he's a romantic item with the parent who actually treats us as people?
I wonder if that early and constant window into how capitalism sees human beings as just another source of wealth, and destroys us just as it destroys nature, is what ultimately made me a communist... and why I had obvious left tendencies from a very early age. (Got called a pinko the first time when I was about five. Got the idiot Cold Warrior who said it to describe what a communist is. He described a sensible individual who understands sharing and community. I told him as much. Was then called a communist in even harsher words. Agreed that I was one, to make the argument stop. Got in a lot of trouble.)
I like Maria Montessori's take better, that (to paraphrase it) children are the original underclass as a group that have limited access to resources, lesser physical (and in some cases mental) abilities, and less capability to advocate for themselves.
"I don't really want to have kids"
"Who will look after you when you're old?"
My retirement plan is to die in the water wars.
Idk the community of found family of varying ages that I helped build through sharing resources and knowledge?
has pcos and couldn't have children even if they wanted them
You could always adopt which is better in basically every way than making a child
But I don't want to raise kids either sooo
I don't think I'd be a very good parent, unfortunately.
But yes I agree.
this is why i dont pay child support.
We get a cocktail of hormones and emotional regulators when and before we have kids and our bodies are truly built to want to reproduce, capitalism is just capitalising on the fact by default.
I think this is not correct and deserves pushback. Are gay people truly built to want to reproduce? Ace?
I think this focus on reproduction is wrong. Human social behaviour evolved beyond that, or we wouldn't have very easy examples of non-reproductive behaviour at a massive scale like this.
We are built to desire closeness to others. We're built to want to bond. Form connections. And sex is even a part of that. But it's not the desire to reproduce, that occurring is an offshoot of all these other social elements playing together.
The people pushing the idea that we are biologically wired to reproduce are people that want social shame to occur for people who do not reproduce. It is to the benefit of capitalists who want more soldiers and more labourers to push this shaming of everyone who does not reproduce as failures of biological design.
A great many of us are demonstrably not built to want to reproduce. We are built to want to love and be close, but that is quite different to reproduction.
Our bodies are capable of a lot of things, should the need arise.