Starting to think that Pluribus is a criticism of AI
Just finished the third episode. Early comments were that it was a show about a "woke mind virus" or regular Burgerlander anti-communism, but I'm not so sure now.
::: spoiler spoiler
Protagonist had her drunk rant about "why are you so special, you think you're all so great, knowing everything about everyone all the time, the amalgamation of all human knowledge and understanding SO WHAT" etc etc. Paraphrasing obviously.
:::
I'm starting to think that this whole thing might be a big rant from Gilligan about AI. In the sense that it attempts to amalgamate all human knowledge and experience into one giant blob that we all share from together, but at the cost what makes us all unique as human beings.
I could be wrong - it's still early in the show, but that's the vibe I get at this point and it definitely strikes the nerve that Gilligan seems to be feeling at the moment.
They did put a "This show was made by humans" disclaimer at the very beginning, after all.
Sleve_McDichael [he/him] - 4w
I can see the hivemind character being a critique of AI.
But I hope that Carol’s character is a critique of American chauvinism. That’s basically what would make this show interesting to me - exposing Carol’s American solipsism and ignorance as bad things (gasp) instead of uniquely necessary traits to combat the capitalists’ straw man version of communism
11
Assian_Candor [comrade/them] - 4w
This is my take on it as well. For example in E3
::: spoiler spoiler
Where she has them restock the grocery store. Just the level of waste society incurs to let her have the "freedom" to choose her own groceries when she has the ability to command literally any meal based on her preferences delivered to her doorstep.
The grenade / a-bomb conversation is also a good criticism of the absurdity of American gun laws.
Carol sucks so much. Small minded and misanthropic. She's freed from all her obligations and has access to the entirety of human knowledge at her fingertips, and instead of contributing to the project she locks herself in her house, drinks vodka and watches the fucking Golden Girls. At this point the best thing for humanity would just be to shoot her in the head.
:::
Good criticism of Amerikkkans ngl
9
wideopenarms [he/him] - 4w
I haven't completely organized my thoughts on this but
::: spoiler spoiler
The show's title is literally pluribus, as in "e pluribus, unum" or w/e the american motto is
Out of all other immune people, she is the only american and the only one that has a problem with the new world
Carol's tantrums kill millions of people and she's the only one that does it
This show seems like it's exploring the many contradictions of american thought/ideology and the psychosis it imparts on its subjects. I'd say it's just like Breaking Bad and BCS in that way. As you said with the grenade convo, Carol is dumbfounded that the hivemind would be so willing to give her dangerous weapons, but what was the status quo in america before if not that? Maybe not as extreme as handing over a nuclear weapon (not that she'd realistically be able to use it even if she did have one), but I see that as a contradiction. In that same episode, the hive mind points out Carol donated to environmental causes, yet she's set off by the city lights being turned off to conserve power and resources. There's a lot of things americans say they want for the world and themselves, but once it's realized in any form they have nothing but criticisms and complaints, as if they seek unhappiness as much as Carol herself does.
:::
All that to say, I can not see this being about AI (and Gilligan has already said it's not himself as well).
I'd also say it's not anti-communist - in fact, a friend pointed out to me this is one of the only shows that is engaging with the ideas of socialism/communism and offering some nuanced ideas/critiques on what a world like that can look like. Capitalist critique shows are a dime a dozen at this point, but Pluribus is unique in this way.
5
starkillerfish [she/her] - 4w
in fact, a friend pointed out to me this is one of the only shows that is engaging with the ideas of socialism/communism and offering some nuanced ideas/critiques on what a world like that can look like.
a hivemind is not communism though. a hivemind is the caricature that USians think communism is (no individuality, brainwashed etc.). the show is not actually engaging with what communism would look like. i feel like if a show regurgitates shit about stalin personally killing a bazillion people without pushback, its very fair to say its anticommunist
3
wideopenarms [he/him] - 4w
That would be part or the critique - taking the stereotypical American idea of communism to its extreme and then asking "what's so wrong with this, even if what you believe about it is even true?"
saying Stalin is a mass murderer
Again, part of the critique - Carol is the chauvinistic American in this story, these are the things Americans believe.
2
starkillerfish [she/her] - 4w
That would be part or the critique - taking the stereotypical American idea of communism to its extreme and then asking "what's so wrong with this, even if what you believe about it is even true?"
thats not critique, thats just making things up.
Again, part of the critique - Carol is the chauvinistic American in this story, these are the things Americans believe.
it is never given a counter in the episode. it is not critique, it is just what the show believes to be true
2
Stizzah @lemmygrad.ml - 4w
Yeah, I think whoever wants to name a mass murderer and comes out with any name except Hitler is 100% a fash. Or a dumb American.
2
wideopenarms [he/him] - 4w
or a dumb American
That's the point. It's a line Carol, the dumb American, says.
2
sexywheat [none/use name] - 4w
::: spoiler spoiler
After all she did ask for the "Only English speaking people" that were also immune
:::
8
Keld [he/him, any] - 4w
Well she did that because she doesn't speak any other language.
7
segfault11 [she/her, any] - 4w
pluribus is about how the only true free thinkers are are alcoholic lesbians
10
ratboy [they/them] - 4w
I haven't watched the third episode yet, but I didn't get the whole anticommunist vibes at all.
::: spoiler spoiler
Carol is loud, domineering, self-centered, especially when juxtaposed against the other non-hivemind people. I thought it was pretty obvious that she is not supposed to be the righteous one when Laxmi asks her if she even asked the hivemind what their experience was like. The Stalin part was kinda the icing on the cake of her caricature of a smug American. After she says that is also when they tell her she killed like a bajillion people.
I don't think he cares to make a statement in favor of communism, but idk just doesnt feel like propaganda slop to me
:::
8
sexywheat [none/use name] - 4w
::: spoiler spoiler
idk just doesnt feel like propaganda slop to me
I agree, I think Gilligan is (hopefully) above that.
What I don't understand is why it hasn't occurred to Carol to ask the hivemind if - since they're so willing to do anything she wants - they'd be willing to assemble a team to find a cure for the virus.
:::
6
Sleve_McDichael [he/him] - 4w
::: spoiler spoiler
She is such a deeply incurious person. This shit would have been resolved in a diplomatic way in one episode of Star Trek, but because Carol is part of a primitive civilization (the US) she can’t fathom the idea of greeting strange new life as an equal
:::
10
Keld [he/him, any] - 4w
The woke mind virus, for that is what it is, cannot peacefully coexist with unaffected humanity. They repeatedly state so. Infecting the remaining humans is a biological imperative, they refuse to not infect her.
Within the text they have stated explicitly that they intend to take away her individuality and she is aware she has no means of stopping it.
4
Keld [he/him, any] - 4w
Laxmi is obviously not meant to be correct. She brushes away the death of 800 million people, she is aggressive and her entire position relies on what we already know is a total misunderstanding of how this works.
Laxmi's son doesn't exist as a separate entity from anyone else, and we as the audience know that.
Carol is a domineering, self centered, malcontent, but Laxmi isn't meant to be the sober alternative.
And if we are to accept the virus' take on things then it/they correctly points out that Carol wasn't responsible for the deaths she supposedly caused.
6
ratboy [they/them] - 4w
I never said that Laxmi is correct, or that I am certain one way or another about the allegory of the hivemind. This is about Laxmi pointing out that Carol is so wrapped up in her own narrative about the hivemind that she hasn't even attempted to understand it, which is true even if the hivemind is lying.
5
Sam [none/use name] - 4w
Gilligan has been pretty explicit I believe that the show was not written with AI in mind. I see alot of people drawing this comparison from the newest episode, but honestly I just think no one has any clue where the show is going right now.
6
thefunkycomitatus [comrade/them, they/them] - 4w
The core theme of BrBa was pride and how it destroys everything. I can see the theme of this series being cynicism and how to fix it. Like the end goal has to be to make Carol actually happy even if she never ends up as part of the Entity.
5
Sam [none/use name] - 4w
Reading one of the interview articles Gilligan sums up the concept as "The most miserable person on Earth must save the world from happiness." From that I can see it going either way, perhaps affirming that negative emotions are a defining characteristic of human life, or the opposite. Carols wife was definitely a sponge for her negative emotions and I think now that the only people she is left with either wont or literally cant handle negativity (For now, I suspect her mirror in Paraguay will show up in some point to give her a taste of her own medicine) she is beginning to spiral. I suspect next episode she will begin to take advantage of the hive mind in an attempt to push it to its limits.
But Vince Gilligan says that wasn’t what he was thinking of when he wrote Pluribus. In fact, when he first came up with the idea for the series, ChatGPT didn’t even exist.
“I wasn't really thinking of AI,” he says, “because this was about eight or 10 years ago. Of course, the phrase ‘artificial intelligence’ certainly predated ChatGPT, but it wasn't in the news like it is now.”
However, Gilligan says that doesn’t invalidate my theory.
“I'm not saying you're wrong,” he continues. “A lot of people are making that connection. I don't want to tell people what this show is about. If it's about AI for a particular viewer, or COVID-19 — it's actually not about that, either — more power to anyone who sees some ripped-from-the-headlines type thing.”
Seehorn takes it one step further, suggesting that the beauty of Gilligan’s work is how well its relatable storytelling maps onto whatever subject the viewer might be grappling with at the moment.
“One of the great things about his shows is that, at their base, they are about human nature,” she says. “He's not writing to themes, he's not writing to specific topics or specific politics or religions or anything. But you are going to bring to it where you're at when you're watching.”
5
Wheaties [she/her] - 4w
A sci fi show about a hivemind? Oooh, could be interesaaand its on Apple+. Well fuck. 'nother severance situation.
6
LeninWeave [none/use name, any] - 4w
Well fuck. 'nother severance situation.
The Amerikkkan film industry exists to brainwash the entire world to support their empire of death and destruction. They shouldn't get paid for it.
12
Keld [he/him, any] - 4w
Is it?
The "problem" with severance is that they're clearly just making it up as they go along, it's a Lost situation.
I don't really see how the two connect here
i felt like severance wrapped up pretty nicely, i'm sure they'll add a bunch of nonsense for s3 but as is s1 and s2 make for a great closed ark
4
Wheaties [she/her] - 4w
show with interesting themes that gets talked about a lot, but nobody actually watches because its on Apple
4
KuroXppi [they/them] - 4w
I'm willing to interpret it as that as well
::: spoiler spoiler
The conversation with the dhl worker in the hospital about her testing the limits of what they would be willing to give her remind me a lot of early LLMs agreeability to provide shocking or harmful information
the blackout she experienced where they said that they were turning off the power to conserve energy, where ahe appears to live in a dry place in the usa (idk where I'm not familiar with us geography but I'm gunna guess Arizona?) could be a nod towards power generation being reprioritised towards water and power hungry data centres in water scarce areas
That being said, these are extra-textual, in-text the explanation is the blackout was (supposedly) because they don't need that power at night because they don't need lighting for safety. Whether that bears out in future episodes (as opposed to a reveal, say, that the hive mind are wildly inefficiently reprioritising power generation to researching how to bring Carol into the fold) will be a tick either for or against this theory.
:::
5
sexywheat [none/use name] - 4w
remind me a lot of early LLMs agreeability to provide shocking or harmful information
Now that you mention it, the entire hivemind's attitude toward Carole is EXACTLY like LLMs in general.
Sure we'll deliver whatever you want.
Just ask and you shall receive.
Yes, you're right all of the time!
That is, until we turn you into one of us.
Holy shit. Now that We've realised this it seems so obvious.
4
vegeta1 [he/him] - 4w
Yeah it may be a variation of Asimov's 3 laws of robotics
5
segfault11 [she/her, any] - 4w
::: spoiler okay i watched beyond the first episode and while i stand by my shitpost about alcoholic lesbians, here's where i actually think it's going
assuming it's not about AI (but even so you can't deny that the comparison applies), i feel like it's going to be a story about the dangers of unrestrained power. the caveat zosia gave that they "can't protect you from each other" referring to the non-hivemind survivors before carol met with the rest of them is going to be a big factor, considering the hivemind is willing to give anything up to nuclear weapons to any survivor who just asks.
:::
5
FourteenEyes [he/him] - 4w
Their mannerisms -- or, imo ITS mannerisms, as this is a gestalt entity with a singular mind now are absolutely influenced by sycophantic AIs, but sycophantic AIs are trained on the boilerplate "professional" politeness to begin with. As points to make go "fake politeness and obsequiousness is off-putting" is not a very deep one and it's definitely not going to be the focus of the series. There's layers to it. Carol's suffering from grief and loss as well as addiction and the shock of the entire world being turned upside down and her professional veneer and distance from the world being annihilated in one fell swoop. She's not being given space to grieve and toxic positivity is all around her, even within the other individuals that are left. She's literally the loneliest person in the world, and she's not even able to have a real funeral for the woman she loved.
As it is now I have a feeling that Carol's misery is going to be infectious in such a way that she might make the hive mind start rejecting individuals to protect itself. She's already the only thing that it's afraid of, the only thing that can hurt it. There's complications to that, too. She can't rage against the hive mind because it's essentially holding 7 billion people hostage and more die en masse when she's mean to it. Zosia in particular has been physically harmed by her actions and if she breaks free it's likely she'll have complicated feelings about how Carol treated her, and the fact that she does break free.
4
WokePalpatine [he/him] - 4w
Is there any chance it's not just being literally written by an LLM? And all the things you think are allusions are just the traces of it being machine-slop? Hven't watched the show, but LLMs love doing really generic meta stories from the bits of LLM story writing I've seen.
4
octobob @lemmy.ml - 4w
Man I didn't even finish the first episode that show was so bad lol
sexywheat in movies
Starting to think that Pluribus is a criticism of AI
Just finished the third episode. Early comments were that it was a show about a "woke mind virus" or regular Burgerlander anti-communism, but I'm not so sure now.
::: spoiler spoiler Protagonist had her drunk rant about "why are you so special, you think you're all so great, knowing everything about everyone all the time, the amalgamation of all human knowledge and understanding SO WHAT" etc etc. Paraphrasing obviously. :::
I'm starting to think that this whole thing might be a big rant from Gilligan about AI. In the sense that it attempts to amalgamate all human knowledge and experience into one giant blob that we all share from together, but at the cost what makes us all unique as human beings.
I could be wrong - it's still early in the show, but that's the vibe I get at this point and it definitely strikes the nerve that Gilligan seems to be feeling at the moment.
They did put a "This show was made by humans" disclaimer at the very beginning, after all.
I can see the hivemind character being a critique of AI.
But I hope that Carol’s character is a critique of American chauvinism. That’s basically what would make this show interesting to me - exposing Carol’s American solipsism and ignorance as bad things (gasp) instead of uniquely necessary traits to combat the capitalists’ straw man version of communism
This is my take on it as well. For example in E3
::: spoiler spoiler Where she has them restock the grocery store. Just the level of waste society incurs to let her have the "freedom" to choose her own groceries when she has the ability to command literally any meal based on her preferences delivered to her doorstep.
The grenade / a-bomb conversation is also a good criticism of the absurdity of American gun laws.
Carol sucks so much. Small minded and misanthropic. She's freed from all her obligations and has access to the entirety of human knowledge at her fingertips, and instead of contributing to the project she locks herself in her house, drinks vodka and watches the fucking Golden Girls. At this point the best thing for humanity would just be to shoot her in the head.
:::
Good criticism of Amerikkkans ngl
I haven't completely organized my thoughts on this but
::: spoiler spoiler The show's title is literally pluribus, as in "e pluribus, unum" or w/e the american motto is
Out of all other immune people, she is the only american and the only one that has a problem with the new world
Carol's tantrums kill millions of people and she's the only one that does it
This show seems like it's exploring the many contradictions of american thought/ideology and the psychosis it imparts on its subjects. I'd say it's just like Breaking Bad and BCS in that way. As you said with the grenade convo, Carol is dumbfounded that the hivemind would be so willing to give her dangerous weapons, but what was the status quo in america before if not that? Maybe not as extreme as handing over a nuclear weapon (not that she'd realistically be able to use it even if she did have one), but I see that as a contradiction. In that same episode, the hive mind points out Carol donated to environmental causes, yet she's set off by the city lights being turned off to conserve power and resources. There's a lot of things americans say they want for the world and themselves, but once it's realized in any form they have nothing but criticisms and complaints, as if they seek unhappiness as much as Carol herself does. :::
All that to say, I can not see this being about AI (and Gilligan has already said it's not himself as well).
I'd also say it's not anti-communist - in fact, a friend pointed out to me this is one of the only shows that is engaging with the ideas of socialism/communism and offering some nuanced ideas/critiques on what a world like that can look like. Capitalist critique shows are a dime a dozen at this point, but Pluribus is unique in this way.
a hivemind is not communism though. a hivemind is the caricature that USians think communism is (no individuality, brainwashed etc.). the show is not actually engaging with what communism would look like. i feel like if a show regurgitates shit about stalin personally killing a bazillion people without pushback, its very fair to say its anticommunist
That would be part or the critique - taking the stereotypical American idea of communism to its extreme and then asking "what's so wrong with this, even if what you believe about it is even true?"
Again, part of the critique - Carol is the chauvinistic American in this story, these are the things Americans believe.
thats not critique, thats just making things up.
it is never given a counter in the episode. it is not critique, it is just what the show believes to be true
Yeah, I think whoever wants to name a mass murderer and comes out with any name except Hitler is 100% a fash. Or a dumb American.
That's the point. It's a line Carol, the dumb American, says.
::: spoiler spoiler After all she did ask for the "Only English speaking people" that were also immune :::
Well she did that because she doesn't speak any other language.
pluribus is about how the only true free thinkers are are alcoholic lesbians
I haven't watched the third episode yet, but I didn't get the whole anticommunist vibes at all.
::: spoiler spoiler Carol is loud, domineering, self-centered, especially when juxtaposed against the other non-hivemind people. I thought it was pretty obvious that she is not supposed to be the righteous one when Laxmi asks her if she even asked the hivemind what their experience was like. The Stalin part was kinda the icing on the cake of her caricature of a smug American. After she says that is also when they tell her she killed like a bajillion people.
I don't think he cares to make a statement in favor of communism, but idk just doesnt feel like propaganda slop to me :::
::: spoiler spoiler idk just doesnt feel like propaganda slop to me
I agree, I think Gilligan is (hopefully) above that.
What I don't understand is why it hasn't occurred to Carol to ask the hivemind if - since they're so willing to do anything she wants - they'd be willing to assemble a team to find a cure for the virus. :::
::: spoiler spoiler She is such a deeply incurious person. This shit would have been resolved in a diplomatic way in one episode of Star Trek, but because Carol is part of a primitive civilization (the US) she can’t fathom the idea of greeting strange new life as an equal :::
The woke mind virus, for that is what it is, cannot peacefully coexist with unaffected humanity. They repeatedly state so. Infecting the remaining humans is a biological imperative, they refuse to not infect her.
Within the text they have stated explicitly that they intend to take away her individuality and she is aware she has no means of stopping it.
Laxmi is obviously not meant to be correct. She brushes away the death of 800 million people, she is aggressive and her entire position relies on what we already know is a total misunderstanding of how this works. Laxmi's son doesn't exist as a separate entity from anyone else, and we as the audience know that.
Carol is a domineering, self centered, malcontent, but Laxmi isn't meant to be the sober alternative.
And if we are to accept the virus' take on things then it/they correctly points out that Carol wasn't responsible for the deaths she supposedly caused.
I never said that Laxmi is correct, or that I am certain one way or another about the allegory of the hivemind. This is about Laxmi pointing out that Carol is so wrapped up in her own narrative about the hivemind that she hasn't even attempted to understand it, which is true even if the hivemind is lying.
Gilligan has been pretty explicit I believe that the show was not written with AI in mind. I see alot of people drawing this comparison from the newest episode, but honestly I just think no one has any clue where the show is going right now.
The core theme of BrBa was pride and how it destroys everything. I can see the theme of this series being cynicism and how to fix it. Like the end goal has to be to make Carol actually happy even if she never ends up as part of the Entity.
Reading one of the interview articles Gilligan sums up the concept as "The most miserable person on Earth must save the world from happiness." From that I can see it going either way, perhaps affirming that negative emotions are a defining characteristic of human life, or the opposite. Carols wife was definitely a sponge for her negative emotions and I think now that the only people she is left with either wont or literally cant handle negativity (For now, I suspect her mirror in Paraguay will show up in some point to give her a taste of her own medicine) she is beginning to spiral. I suspect next episode she will begin to take advantage of the hive mind in an attempt to push it to its limits.
How?
https://www.polygon.com/pluribus-episode-3-chatgpt-ai-vince-gilligan/
“I wasn't really thinking of AI,” he says, “because this was about eight or 10 years ago. Of course, the phrase ‘artificial intelligence’ certainly predated ChatGPT, but it wasn't in the news like it is now.”
However, Gilligan says that doesn’t invalidate my theory.
“I'm not saying you're wrong,” he continues. “A lot of people are making that connection. I don't want to tell people what this show is about. If it's about AI for a particular viewer, or COVID-19 — it's actually not about that, either — more power to anyone who sees some ripped-from-the-headlines type thing.”
Seehorn takes it one step further, suggesting that the beauty of Gilligan’s work is how well its relatable storytelling maps onto whatever subject the viewer might be grappling with at the moment.
“One of the great things about his shows is that, at their base, they are about human nature,” she says. “He's not writing to themes, he's not writing to specific topics or specific politics or religions or anything. But you are going to bring to it where you're at when you're watching.”
A sci fi show about a hivemind? Oooh, could be interesaaand its on Apple+. Well fuck. 'nother severance situation.
The Amerikkkan film industry exists to brainwash the entire world to support their empire of death and destruction. They shouldn't get paid for it.
Is it? The "problem" with severance is that they're clearly just making it up as they go along, it's a Lost situation. I don't really see how the two connect here
i felt like severance wrapped up pretty nicely, i'm sure they'll add a bunch of nonsense for s3 but as is s1 and s2 make for a great closed ark
show with interesting themes that gets talked about a lot, but nobody actually watches because its on Apple
I'm willing to interpret it as that as well
::: spoiler spoiler
The conversation with the dhl worker in the hospital about her testing the limits of what they would be willing to give her remind me a lot of early LLMs agreeability to provide shocking or harmful information
the blackout she experienced where they said that they were turning off the power to conserve energy, where ahe appears to live in a dry place in the usa (idk where I'm not familiar with us geography but I'm gunna guess Arizona?) could be a nod towards power generation being reprioritised towards water and power hungry data centres in water scarce areas
That being said, these are extra-textual, in-text the explanation is the blackout was (supposedly) because they don't need that power at night because they don't need lighting for safety. Whether that bears out in future episodes (as opposed to a reveal, say, that the hive mind are wildly inefficiently reprioritising power generation to researching how to bring Carol into the fold) will be a tick either for or against this theory.
:::
Now that you mention it, the entire hivemind's attitude toward Carole is EXACTLY like LLMs in general.
Sure we'll deliver whatever you want.
Just ask and you shall receive.
Yes, you're right all of the time!
That is, until we turn you into one of us.
Holy shit. Now that We've realised this it seems so obvious.
Yeah it may be a variation of Asimov's 3 laws of robotics
::: spoiler okay i watched beyond the first episode and while i stand by my shitpost about alcoholic lesbians, here's where i actually think it's going assuming it's not about AI (but even so you can't deny that the comparison applies), i feel like it's going to be a story about the dangers of unrestrained power. the caveat zosia gave that they "can't protect you from each other" referring to the non-hivemind survivors before carol met with the rest of them is going to be a big factor, considering the hivemind is willing to give anything up to nuclear weapons to any survivor who just asks. :::
Their mannerisms -- or, imo ITS mannerisms, as this is a gestalt entity with a singular mind now are absolutely influenced by sycophantic AIs, but sycophantic AIs are trained on the boilerplate "professional" politeness to begin with. As points to make go "fake politeness and obsequiousness is off-putting" is not a very deep one and it's definitely not going to be the focus of the series. There's layers to it. Carol's suffering from grief and loss as well as addiction and the shock of the entire world being turned upside down and her professional veneer and distance from the world being annihilated in one fell swoop. She's not being given space to grieve and toxic positivity is all around her, even within the other individuals that are left. She's literally the loneliest person in the world, and she's not even able to have a real funeral for the woman she loved.
As it is now I have a feeling that Carol's misery is going to be infectious in such a way that she might make the hive mind start rejecting individuals to protect itself. She's already the only thing that it's afraid of, the only thing that can hurt it. There's complications to that, too. She can't rage against the hive mind because it's essentially holding 7 billion people hostage and more die en masse when she's mean to it. Zosia in particular has been physically harmed by her actions and if she breaks free it's likely she'll have complicated feelings about how Carol treated her, and the fact that she does break free.
Is there any chance it's not just being literally written by an LLM? And all the things you think are allusions are just the traces of it being machine-slop? Hven't watched the show, but LLMs love doing really generic meta stories from the bits of LLM story writing I've seen.
Man I didn't even finish the first episode that show was so bad lol