Imperialism Reading Group - Super Imperialism, by Michael Hudson - Week 1 - February 17th to February 23rd
This is a weekly thread in which we read through books on and related to imperialism and geopolitics. Last week's thread is here.
Welcome to the first week of Michael Hudson's Super Imperialism: The Origin and Fundamentals of US World Dominance! I'm reading the Third Edition, but I imagine most of the information is the same if you have an earlier edition.
Looking at the page count for this book, it seems an appropriate pace to read one chapter per week, which, including the introduction, will mean this book will take 18 weeks to read, meaning we will finish in June. Obviously, you are totally free to read faster than this pace and look at my/our commentary once we've caught up to you.
Every week, I will write a summary of the chapter(s) read, for those who have already read the book and don't wish to reread, can't follow along for various reasons, or for those joining later who want to dive right in to the next book without needing to pick this one up too. I will post all my chapter summaries in this final thread, for access in one convenient location. Please comment or message me directly if you wish to be pinged for this group.
This week, we will be reading the Introduction, which is approximately 37 pages.
MarmiteLover123 [comrade/them, any] - 10mon
this book will take 18 weeks to read, meaning we will finish in June
Oh god what have I signed up for.
Just kidding I'll read it.
11
GoodGuyWithACat [he/him] - 10mon
I consider myself well versed in global economics compared to the average bear, but I have to reread paragraphs pretty often to parse the terminology. However, I got a good grasp on the "free lunch" concept Hudson refers to. On pg 19-21 in my copy my understanding:
US imports more than it exports, meaning there is a surplus of dollars in the world. The US also runs up a deficit by "military spending" and other ways of expanding the US empire.
Foreign nations export to the US and build up reserves of USD with nowhere to spend it. If they spent it too much, they would risk lowering the value of the USD which would hurt their ability to export (because then US goods would be comparatively cheaper)
Foreign central banks with USD reserves invest them into US Treasury Bonds (because they have nowhere else to send them), which keeps USD flowing into the US financial sector and keeps the US stable.
This "recycling" of dollars means the US can keep their own interest rates low to spur investment without devaluing their own currency, because the demand for US Treasury Bonds keeps the price inflated. So foreign central banks essentially fund US domestic spending.
This system keeps spinning because not keeping it spinning could crash foreign economies and the US then seeks to expand other nations into the dollar economy.
The US now has the power to threaten foreign countries that they'll mess up their exchange rate if they don't give the US favorable trade deals
If I'm missing anything important or misunderstanding, please comment.
10
MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him] - 10mon
This is my first read but this seems like a perfect summary. The only addition, which I'm still unsure how to feel about, is that the US fell into this stumbling around with not intention behind the design, one that was arranged as "one of benign neglect." At first this was an attempt to maintain a balance of payments that allowed rolling over of debts to the next year. But that this seemed stable, so it's continuation became the norm and the loser of the situation was US debt holders.
Edit: I see you were focused on that one set of pages, and so this came in a later section I think, my bad. Gonna leave this here though
6
niph - 10mon
Life got in the way of following the Imperialism reread but I’m getting this out the library today if they have it
10
thethirdgracchi [he/him, they/them] - 10mon
The introduction (at least in my copy) was mostly just hype for the book, so I guess I'll have more interesting stuff to say next week when we start the text proper. I did find this section interesting, though.
It must not be thought, however, that what has been true for twenty-five years past is of necessity true of the future. Total recovery and vast enlargement of the productive and investment powers of Europe and Asia are by now a fact. The imperative question, therefore, is whether Europe and Japan, each with productive powers superior to those which characterized them in 1939, and with Europe moving towards an economic integration so advanced as to require a common currency and a common central bank, may not themselves experience large savings which cannot find any profitable employment in Europe or Japan. If this does become the case, as economic history suggests it might, a new stage of finance-capitalist imperialism must develop. Excess capital in the United States, in the sense that enormous capital sums cannot today find adequately profitable investment at home, may meet head-on excess capital from Europe and Asia also seeking profitable investment abroad. Hobson's postulate, it seems, has perhaps not been disproved but deferred, to reemerge, perhaps in explosive antagonism, in a not distant future.
And in fact, this is precisely what has happened, first with Japan in the 80's as Japanese capital extended across the globe in search of profits, even investing in American firms and land until that entire effort was killed by the Plaza Accords the US imposed on Japan. And it is now happening again, with China's BRI and the various more regional players like Turkey, Russia, UAE, India, and to a lesser extent South Korea and Japan extending their tendrils across the globe competing for capital projects abroad. Hasn't been in "explosive antagonism" yet, mostly because all these investments are still in USD playing by the rules set by the United States, but that undercurrent is there and growing.
7
MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him] - 10mon
Something I'm watching out for in this read-through: I've heard from many trusted sources that this book is great at dealing with finance and monetary policy in itself, but that it often can get lost in that analysis and lose track of a materialist basis. I do see that a bit in this first part of the book, where talks of debts and being bound to debts isn't always grounded in the reality of the trade of goods and services which makes it impossible to escape. Is the real imperialism the money-structure which holds countries hostage or the control of goods which is aided by that hostage-taking? Gonna stay sharply attent to this and seeing if this difference results in different conclusions
7
SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him] - 10mon
Yeah, in general I think one should read this book at least slightly cautiously - Hudson isn't the most dialectical guy around, and I think most of us would disagree with him on Stalin, and at least partially disagree with the successes and failures of the USSR. I shook my head a little at the brief section that drew parallels between America's exploitative measures and the USSR's measures, it's knocking on the door of the crowd of people who go "uh ackshtually the Soviets were imperialists who did a hecking holodomor and imperialistically and evilly invaded afghanistan because they were evil and stupid" (well, perhaps they were a little stupid there).
That being said, I think it's still very much worth engaging with the material as I don't know anybody else who has a grand working theory of current-day imperialism that corresponds to reality as well as his theory does, even if some authors are better on individual aspects of it with a more explicitly socialist/dialectical approach (Gabriel Rockhill for example, or Vijay Prashad on the role of the Third World). And several of those who are creating their own theories of imperialism are very much in debt to Hudson and wouldn't disagree with any of it, so much as make tweaks here and there and change the overall perspective (such as Desai, who literally co-hosts a goddamn youtube geopolitics show with him, and who tends to focus on how the US has largely failed to exert their full imperial vision since 1945 and has been barely keeping things together).
4
MLRL_Commie [comrade/them, he/him] - 10mon
I'm excited to read it regardless of any cautions! It's good and well written (I already read the first part too).
The section comparing the US to the USSR was exactly what I had sort of expected: his analysis was based in the monetary control utilized by the USSR and disregarded how that was implemented in reference to goods and services. Then, after concluding, he referenced this difference a section later when building to his idea of super-imperialism (control of the money meaning that the US can effectively scrape off the top without taxes and entirely independently of the subjected country). But his reference to the differences of the USSR and the US came too late. So it's obvious where this focus lost the connection to commodity production and trade.
Still super useful, anyways, and very easy to save from itself for us I think
4
SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him] - 10mon
The first week of Super Imperialism!
Once again, if you don't want to read this book and were just here for Lenin's Imperialism, then let me know (either in the comments or via DM) and I can take you off the ping list.
Thanks for the invite, I’d love to join in but note that I am also currently writing up a series of effort posts on China’s economy (nearly 4-5 months of thorough reading and research). Can’t promise when to deliver, but it is already taking up all the little bits of free time I have.
10
SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him] - 10mon
No worries at all!
2
Sasuke [comrade/them] - 10mon
can you also add me to the ping list? i made about halfway through the book last year, but i honestly found it too difficult to grasp on my own. i'm hoping discussing it with my beautiful newsmega heads will help <3
3
GoodGuyWithACat [he/him] - 10mon
Fuck it, add me to the ping list 72 trilly.
3
thethirdgracchi [he/him, they/them] - 10mon
Can you add me to this ping? I'll start reading today, will continue to post thoughts as we go.
3
2Password2Remember [he/him] - 10mon
add me to the list please!
Death to America
3
GoodGuyWithACat [he/him] - 10mon
When I read rentier I can just hear it in Hudson's voice and then I imagine him clearing his throat.
anyone got a link to an epub of the 3rd edition? so far i can only find pdfs and my ebook app doesn't like that :(
i would look on libgen but it appears to have finally died
Death to America
4
GoodGuyWithACat [he/him] - 10mon
I can't access it at work so I can't check, by z-library.sk is a libgen replacement.
3
2Password2Remember [he/him] - 10mon
there doesn't appear to be an epub version of the 3rd edition anywhere, but thanks for bringing z-library.sk to my attention! libgen is dead, long live libgen
Death to America
4
Cowbee [he/him, they/them] - 10mon
Definitely need to read this critically, but the analysis is generally very useful so far. Want to be more cautious with this one.
SeventyTwoTrillion in theory
Imperialism Reading Group - Super Imperialism, by Michael Hudson - Week 1 - February 17th to February 23rd
This is a weekly thread in which we read through books on and related to imperialism and geopolitics. Last week's thread is here.
Welcome to the first week of Michael Hudson's Super Imperialism: The Origin and Fundamentals of US World Dominance! I'm reading the Third Edition, but I imagine most of the information is the same if you have an earlier edition.
Looking at the page count for this book, it seems an appropriate pace to read one chapter per week, which, including the introduction, will mean this book will take 18 weeks to read, meaning we will finish in June. Obviously, you are totally free to read faster than this pace and look at my/our commentary once we've caught up to you.
Every week, I will write a summary of the chapter(s) read, for those who have already read the book and don't wish to reread, can't follow along for various reasons, or for those joining later who want to dive right in to the next book without needing to pick this one up too. I will post all my chapter summaries in this final thread, for access in one convenient location. Please comment or message me directly if you wish to be pinged for this group.
This week, we will be reading the Introduction, which is approximately 37 pages.
Oh god what have I signed up for.
Just kidding I'll read it.
I consider myself well versed in global economics compared to the average bear, but I have to reread paragraphs pretty often to parse the terminology. However, I got a good grasp on the "free lunch" concept Hudson refers to. On pg 19-21 in my copy my understanding:
US imports more than it exports, meaning there is a surplus of dollars in the world. The US also runs up a deficit by "military spending" and other ways of expanding the US empire.
Foreign nations export to the US and build up reserves of USD with nowhere to spend it. If they spent it too much, they would risk lowering the value of the USD which would hurt their ability to export (because then US goods would be comparatively cheaper)
Foreign central banks with USD reserves invest them into US Treasury Bonds (because they have nowhere else to send them), which keeps USD flowing into the US financial sector and keeps the US stable.
This "recycling" of dollars means the US can keep their own interest rates low to spur investment without devaluing their own currency, because the demand for US Treasury Bonds keeps the price inflated. So foreign central banks essentially fund US domestic spending.
This system keeps spinning because not keeping it spinning could crash foreign economies and the US then seeks to expand other nations into the dollar economy.
The US now has the power to threaten foreign countries that they'll mess up their exchange rate if they don't give the US favorable trade deals
If I'm missing anything important or misunderstanding, please comment.
This is my first read but this seems like a perfect summary. The only addition, which I'm still unsure how to feel about, is that the US fell into this stumbling around with not intention behind the design, one that was arranged as "one of benign neglect." At first this was an attempt to maintain a balance of payments that allowed rolling over of debts to the next year. But that this seemed stable, so it's continuation became the norm and the loser of the situation was US debt holders.
Edit: I see you were focused on that one set of pages, and so this came in a later section I think, my bad. Gonna leave this here though
Life got in the way of following the Imperialism reread but I’m getting this out the library today if they have it
The introduction (at least in my copy) was mostly just hype for the book, so I guess I'll have more interesting stuff to say next week when we start the text proper. I did find this section interesting, though.
And in fact, this is precisely what has happened, first with Japan in the 80's as Japanese capital extended across the globe in search of profits, even investing in American firms and land until that entire effort was killed by the Plaza Accords the US imposed on Japan. And it is now happening again, with China's BRI and the various more regional players like Turkey, Russia, UAE, India, and to a lesser extent South Korea and Japan extending their tendrils across the globe competing for capital projects abroad. Hasn't been in "explosive antagonism" yet, mostly because all these investments are still in USD playing by the rules set by the United States, but that undercurrent is there and growing.
Something I'm watching out for in this read-through: I've heard from many trusted sources that this book is great at dealing with finance and monetary policy in itself, but that it often can get lost in that analysis and lose track of a materialist basis. I do see that a bit in this first part of the book, where talks of debts and being bound to debts isn't always grounded in the reality of the trade of goods and services which makes it impossible to escape. Is the real imperialism the money-structure which holds countries hostage or the control of goods which is aided by that hostage-taking? Gonna stay sharply attent to this and seeing if this difference results in different conclusions
Yeah, in general I think one should read this book at least slightly cautiously - Hudson isn't the most dialectical guy around, and I think most of us would disagree with him on Stalin, and at least partially disagree with the successes and failures of the USSR. I shook my head a little at the brief section that drew parallels between America's exploitative measures and the USSR's measures, it's knocking on the door of the crowd of people who go "uh ackshtually the Soviets were imperialists who did a hecking holodomor and imperialistically and evilly invaded afghanistan because they were evil and stupid" (well, perhaps they were a little stupid there).
That being said, I think it's still very much worth engaging with the material as I don't know anybody else who has a grand working theory of current-day imperialism that corresponds to reality as well as his theory does, even if some authors are better on individual aspects of it with a more explicitly socialist/dialectical approach (Gabriel Rockhill for example, or Vijay Prashad on the role of the Third World). And several of those who are creating their own theories of imperialism are very much in debt to Hudson and wouldn't disagree with any of it, so much as make tweaks here and there and change the overall perspective (such as Desai, who literally co-hosts a goddamn youtube geopolitics show with him, and who tends to focus on how the US has largely failed to exert their full imperial vision since 1945 and has been barely keeping things together).
I'm excited to read it regardless of any cautions! It's good and well written (I already read the first part too).
The section comparing the US to the USSR was exactly what I had sort of expected: his analysis was based in the monetary control utilized by the USSR and disregarded how that was implemented in reference to goods and services. Then, after concluding, he referenced this difference a section later when building to his idea of super-imperialism (control of the money meaning that the US can effectively scrape off the top without taxes and entirely independently of the subjected country). But his reference to the differences of the USSR and the US came too late. So it's obvious where this focus lost the connection to commodity production and trade.
Still super useful, anyways, and very easy to save from itself for us I think
The first week of Super Imperialism!
Once again, if you don't want to read this book and were just here for Lenin's Imperialism, then let me know (either in the comments or via DM) and I can take you off the ping list.
@RedDawn@hexbear.net @Cowbee@hexbear.net @kittin@hexbear.net @Sebrof@hexbear.net @TrippyFocus@lemmy.ml @OrionsMask@hexbear.net @0__0@hexbear.net @SummerIsTooWarm@hexbear.net @mbt2402@hexbear.net @BanjoBolshevik@hexbear.net @BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net @NinjaGinga@hexbear.net @Test_Tickles@hexbear.net @luddybuddy@hexbear.net @Coca_Cola_but_Commie@hexbear.net @niph@hexbear.net @redline@lemmygrad.ml @glimmer_twin@hexbear.net @MF_COOM@hexbear.net @MiraculousMM@hexbear.net @StarkWolf@hexbear.net @StillNoLeftLeft@hexbear.net @BGDelirium@hexbear.net @THEPH0NECOMPANY@hexbear.net @devils_dust@hexbear.net @iridaniotter@hexbear.net @Ehrmantrout@hexbear.net @quarrk@hexbear.net @RaisedFistJoker@hexbear.net @Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net @darkmode@hexbear.net @PaulSmackage@hexbear.net @FunkyStuff@hexbear.net @IceWallowCum@hexbear.net @Babs@hexbear.net @PerryGirl@hexbear.net @Rojo27@hexbear.net @OgdenTO@hexbear.net
I'm also going to ping @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net, just this once, as they might be interested.
Thanks for the invite, I’d love to join in but note that I am also currently writing up a series of effort posts on China’s economy (nearly 4-5 months of thorough reading and research). Can’t promise when to deliver, but it is already taking up all the little bits of free time I have.
No worries at all!
can you also add me to the ping list? i made about halfway through the book last year, but i honestly found it too difficult to grasp on my own. i'm hoping discussing it with my beautiful newsmega heads will help <3
Fuck it, add me to the ping list 72 trilly.
Can you add me to this ping? I'll start reading today, will continue to post thoughts as we go.
add me to the list please!
Death to America
When I read rentier I can just hear it in Hudson's voice and then I imagine him clearing his throat.
Raun-tyay
anyone got a link to an epub of the 3rd edition? so far i can only find pdfs and my ebook app doesn't like that :(
i would look on libgen but it appears to have finally died
Death to America
I can't access it at work so I can't check, by z-library.sk is a libgen replacement.
there doesn't appear to be an epub version of the 3rd edition anywhere, but thanks for bringing z-library.sk to my attention! libgen is dead, long live libgen
Death to America
Definitely need to read this critically, but the analysis is generally very useful so far. Want to be more cautious with this one.