Tennessee has recently passed a bill, effective July 1st 2024, declaring it a class-C felony to "recruit, harbor, or transport an unemancipated minor within this state" for transgender healthcare procedures, carrying a sentence of 3-15 years in prison. This applies over state lines and states that do not have anti-extradition laws relating to trans rights can extradite you to Tennessee.
Notably: the bill is vague. This means: telling stories of your own transition, describing your healthcare experiences to an open group chat, describing your trans experiences on a public website, creating trans health guides online, describing how you have gotten DIY HRT, describing anything to do with trans healthcare, even as a cis person, can result in a class-C felony conviction.
Given that being arrested in any capacity for transgender people can be an incredibly dangerous experience (CW: SV), I strongly suggest you begin caring about opsec, stop referring to where you live, use VPNs, stop using apps like Discord, and stop using social media sites that track your IP or user agent fingerprint while unprotected. Remember that for a bill like this to be challenged in court, you have to be arrested first.
Will discuss creating / linking to a transgender matrix chat so that we can help people to move off of things like discord.
Babs [she/her] - 2.3yr
My current strategy of "stick to the safe states" is starting to feel shakier and shakier.
I'm fuckin scared yo.
80
VILenin [he/him] - 2.3yr
It's only a matter before a red state tries to extradite a trans person from safe state, which will comply in the spirit of bipartisanship. Or maybe they won't, in which case it will go to the Supreme Court which will rule just the way you expect them to. Fuck this depraved country
53
Rx_Hawk [he/him] - 2.3yr
Supreme Court might be idiotic assholes but I really doubt they will rule in favor of forced extradition to a different state. This is something pushover blue states might do on their own, but for the federal government to say that state laws apply nationwide would open a can of worms.
The Extradition Clause, which is also referred to as the Interstate Rendition Clause, applies to a person accused of a crime in one state who flees to another state. The Extradition Clause “preclude[s] any state from becoming a sanctuary for fugitives from justice” and “enable[s] each state to bring offenders to trial as swiftly as possible in the state where the alleged offense was committed.”
11
Wertheimer [any] - 2.3yr
Yeah, not an exact parallel to what you were arguing given Colorado's complicity, but I figured "Bad state forces extradition by any means necessary, Supreme Court pops up at the end to say 'Actually, that was fine' " was close enough to be ominous.
They can simply say it applies in this case but not in the others. It doesn’t need to be consistent or make any internal sense. The hardest part is coming up with the bullshit about how this is implied by the constitution.
11
Ho_Chi_Chungus [she/her] - 2.3yr
i don't even have words for this one other than . shit's getting worse, the dems will refuse to do anything, and unless some serious left wing labor/political org can get formed real fast real quick then there's basically nothing we can do about it
God damn America, that's in the bible
65
IMF_DOOM [she/her] - 2.3yr
Maybe cross post this onto blahaj zone (even though some of the users are weird pissy freaks about hexbears posting there, it's probably important enough to get them aware of this and stuff)
At this point they'll try to extradite international posters for existing while trans
49
BountifulEggnog [it/its, she/her] - 2.3yr
I know this is serious, but I eagerly await Biden's response. He cares about trans rights, doesn't he?
43
Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them] - 2.3yr
He hasn't said jack shit while trans and their allies are systemically incriminated across the country, hexs too busy comittng multiple genocides. He hears you. He sees you. He just Does Not Care.
35
Ho_Chi_Chungus [she/her] - 2.3yr
This applies over state lines and states that do not have anti-extradition laws relating to trans rights can extradite you to Tennessee.
Is there a place where I can check which states do/don't have said laws? or is that included in that first map you posted?
I hope someone sues this unconstiutional law for fucking millions.
15
queermunist she/her - 2.3yr
Okay so we need to secure Michigan and Wisconsin, then break away with Minnesota and Illinois to form the Great Lakes Protectorate.
14
neo [he/him] - 2.3yr
For one-to-one comms Signal is easier to get started with. Matrix requires a hosting service (or just reliance on the main matrix.org instance), or trust in a server administrator to run one. But it is good software. But unfortunately for group chat it's not as easy to get started as Discord, due to the encrypted nature of Matrix. But Discord shouldn't be considered secure or private, not really. It's just more proprietary spyware, at the end of the day.
Certainly, no matter what, no SMS.
12
Muad'Dibber - 2.3yr
Signal is incredibly dangerous, it's a US hosted and domiciled company, and they have a legal obligation to forward anything they know about you to the federal government if asked.
12
neo [he/him] - 2.3yr
I wouldn't knock it until I learn of a situation where Signal handed data over to the government that wasn't encrypted mishmash or derived from side-channel that wasn't specifically related to Signal (the app or the protocol) itself. I do fully agree, however, that a phone number as a registration ID is bad.
But as it stands I don't consider the point that it's located in the USA to be fully incriminating. Just as I don't find it a problem that Matrix and Vector Creations were an offshoot from an Israeli tech company*. The protocol, and how it functions, are what matters.
*And yes, the major caveat here is that you can inspect and run the Matrix server code (Synapse or Dendrite), but not the Signal server code.
4
Muad'Dibber - 2.3yr
Read the section on NSL's (national security letters) in the link above. Any US domiciled company must give up it's data when asked, and it's illegal for them to tell their users they were forced to do so. The Obama regime admitted to issuing 60 of these every single day, there's no way Signal isn't compromised.
Matrix doesn't need to be hosted in the US, so they don't have that problem. Using any US-hosted service is a big no-no.
7
Saoirse [she/her, comrade/them] - 2.3yr
This is neither new information, nor something overlooked in the design of the software. Thats the point of end to end encryption and open source code: they can only give the data that they have access to, which is the sender, receiver, and timestamps, but we know they cannot decrypt messages in the middle, because it would show in the security implementation in the source code. This model prevents the carrier from knowing the contents of any messages they carry. Therefore, you have to attack one of the end point devices to get the contents, and all the warrants and secret letters in the world can't compell then to give up the content of your messages, because they do not have the means to do so.
There are legitimate problems with the security model, like its use of phone numbers as account identifiers, that render it a poor choice for doing Certain Things, but that alone does not prove it was designed as a honeypot, or that it has been secretly compromised in some way that can't be seen in the source code.
1
neo [he/him] - 2.3yr
This really is worth emphasizing, because there are cases where we can reason about the kinds of exploits and vulnerabilities that do happen based on what we learn after the fact, or based on things that companies say they do or must do by implication even if they don't outright say it.
For example, I do not recommend Apple's iMessage. Why? It's an encrypted chat service, after all.
It's because when you use iCloud Backup they store the private keys. If they hold the private keys, they can decrypt the encrypted data whenever they're subpoenaed or whatever else. So if either party (you or your recipient) has this common feature enabled, your entire chat history is up for grabs. Apple themselves basically say as much here https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/sec3cac31735/web
Available-after-authentication service keys: For other services, such as Photos and iCloud Drive, the service keys are stored in iCloud Hardware Security Modules in Apple data centres, and can be accessed by some Apple services. When a user signs in to iCloud on a new device and authenticates their Apple ID, these keys can be accessed by Apple servers without further user interaction or input. For example, after signing in to iCloud.com, the user can immediately view their photos online. These service keys are available-after-authentication keys.
I disagree with the idea that people should be so overcautious as to only communicate the ideas they support or share in closed, secure, completely anonymized spaces. Generally speaking, it is my belief that overzealous Left-wing security culture does more to harm the movement in the long run than help it.
How and what you choose to communicate is a personal decision, and you should make your own threat assessment to decide what to do. It's important to protect yourself. It's also important not to so easily allow ourselves and our beliefs to be siloed off to private corners of the Internet and not expressed openly in public.
I'm a junior member of the PSL and this is their party line. Use your real name, don't hide your face, tell people exactly what you believe and who you are, if it is at all feasible for you to do so. The more people brazenly and publicly oppose the Capitalist order, the better. I don't share my real name on the Internet because I don't want groypers harassing me, but I have zero fear of fascists breaking down my door and killing me in my home. This sort of thing is exceedingly rare and, if it did happen, I would die a martyr.
8
kristina [she/her] - 2.3yr
Getting arrested as a trans person means you have a high chance of being put into the wrong jail cell. Rates of violence against trans women in jail are astronomical. How you do not comprehend this is beyond me.
18
Drewfro66 @lemmygrad.ml - 2.3yr
I do understand it. People should make their own personal threat assessments when deciding how private and secure to be with online and public communications.
What I'm pushing back against is not people making a personal decision to be more private and secure, which is their right; what I'm pushing back against is the insistence that queer and leftist people and groups should constantly be hiding themselves and their ideals away from the public at large.
I can make an analogy to something told to me by a Union representative: if you are worried about retaliation for support for the union, the best way to protect yourself is not to distance yourself or hide your affiliations; it's to loudly and proudly support the union, so they have a better case to claim your firing was retaliatory.
All revolutionary left-wing politics are inherently escalatory. You bait the oppressors into overstepping their bounds and giving people an excuse to be outraged. It's any one person's right to choose not to participate, and I won't hold it against them, but I believe it is unwise to recommend that the community at large hides itself away in anonymity. Our strength is in numbers, organization, and solidarity.
3
kristina [she/her] - 2.3yr
I believe it is unwise to recommend that the community at large hides itself away in anonymity
Just to be sure, you are trans yourself, right? I'm trying to figure out which community youre referring to
5
infuziSporg [e/em/eir] - 2.3yr
Damn, look at that one extension of green in that sea of pale yellow with warning signs in the South and Appalachia. That one safe spot that's just one train ride from Memphis, Jackson, New Orleans, Little Rock, and DFW; the spot that's just one bus ride from Nashville and then one connecting bus ride from most places in the South.
I wonder if they have a good pro-trans climate there.
Apparently they dropped it being a felony in final version of the bill, it is now a cause for civil liability to "intentionally recruit, harbor, or transport an unemancipated minor within this state for the purpose of receiving a prohibited medical procedure under this chapter, regardless of where the medical procedure is to be procured." There are exceptions cut out for common carriers, the minor's parents or guardians, and anyone designated by the minor's parents or guardians and the civil action can only be initiated by the minor's parents or guardians.
I'm curious what counts as "recruiting" kids for trans health care.
kristina in traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
CW: Transphobia. PSA for anyone who supports trans people: Begin using secure communications like Matrix *now*. Do NOT wait or delay.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/tennessee-senate-passes-bill-makingTennessee has recently passed a bill, effective July 1st 2024, declaring it a class-C felony to "recruit, harbor, or transport an unemancipated minor within this state" for transgender healthcare procedures, carrying a sentence of 3-15 years in prison. This applies over state lines and states that do not have anti-extradition laws relating to trans rights can extradite you to Tennessee.
Notably: the bill is vague. This means: telling stories of your own transition, describing your healthcare experiences to an open group chat, describing your trans experiences on a public website, creating trans health guides online, describing how you have gotten DIY HRT, describing anything to do with trans healthcare, even as a cis person, can result in a class-C felony conviction.
Given that being arrested in any capacity for transgender people can be an incredibly dangerous experience (CW: SV), I strongly suggest you begin caring about opsec, stop referring to where you live, use VPNs, stop using apps like Discord, and stop using social media sites that track your IP or user agent fingerprint while unprotected. Remember that for a bill like this to be challenged in court, you have to be arrested first.
Will discuss creating / linking to a transgender matrix chat so that we can help people to move off of things like discord.
My current strategy of "stick to the safe states" is starting to feel shakier and shakier.
I'm fuckin scared yo.
It's only a matter before a red state tries to extradite a trans person from safe state, which will comply in the spirit of bipartisanship. Or maybe they won't, in which case it will go to the Supreme Court which will rule just the way you expect them to. Fuck this depraved country
Supreme Court might be idiotic assholes but I really doubt they will rule in favor of forced extradition to a different state. This is something pushover blue states might do on their own, but for the federal government to say that state laws apply nationwide would open a can of worms.
Edit: I was wrong. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-4/section-2/clause-2/overview-of-the-extradition-interstate-rendition-clause
They allowed it when it was to kidnap Bill Haywood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haywood#Extradition
Supreme court never ruled that Idaho must extradite him to Colorado. That's what I'm saying is unlikely.Arguably, they don't even have the authority to rule in such a way.Edit: You know what I did some research and it looks like I'm wrong.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-4/section-2/clause-2/overview-of-the-extradition-interstate-rendition-clause
Yeah, not an exact parallel to what you were arguing given Colorado's complicity, but I figured "Bad state forces extradition by any means necessary, Supreme Court pops up at the end to say 'Actually, that was fine' " was close enough to be ominous.
Thanks for the link. Perhaps also relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Felon_Act
They can simply say it applies in this case but not in the others. It doesn’t need to be consistent or make any internal sense. The hardest part is coming up with the bullshit about how this is implied by the constitution.
i don't even have words for this one other than
. shit's getting worse, the dems will refuse to do anything, and unless some serious left wing labor/political org can get formed real fast real quick then there's basically nothing we can do about it
God damn America, that's in the bible
Maybe cross post this onto blahaj zone (even though some of the users are weird pissy freaks about hexbears posting there, it's probably important enough to get them aware of this and stuff)
Sooo... I could be prosecuted for being a mod?
probably, or just posting anywhere really
"Your content can be seen in Tennessee. Guilty!"
At this point they'll try to extradite international posters for existing while trans
I know this is serious, but I eagerly await Biden's response. He cares about trans rights, doesn't he?
He hasn't said jack shit while trans and their allies are systemically incriminated across the country, hexs too busy comittng multiple genocides. He hears you. He sees you. He just Does Not Care.
Is there a place where I can check which states do/don't have said laws? or is that included in that first map you posted?
first map
Death to the United States of America.
I wonder if the weather underground is nice...
Well, the wind's blowing in the direction of "you should be armed and ready to catch some blue laces"
Anyone have a beginner's guide to matrix?
If you find one lmk
It's just federated chat. You sign up and join a server and choose a mobile app if you need one same as with penny lemmy then use it like a chat app.
fuck.
This will become a new form of swatting. A group like kiwi farms picks a target, collects their online statements, then sics the law on them.
Guess the People’s Republic of Chattanooga isn't happening anytime soon
Does this mean if I provide medical care to a trans person (dispense spironolactone, testosterone, etc) I could be prosecuted in Tennessee?
It sounds to me like it's if that trans person is a minor, and you don't have permission from their parents.
I mean I have no reason to need that information. Fucking fascists.
“Do your parents know you’re taking this?” Not my fucking business.
And doing so in the state of TN.
I hope someone sues this unconstiutional law for fucking millions.
Okay so we need to secure Michigan and Wisconsin, then break away with Minnesota and Illinois to form the Great Lakes Protectorate.
For one-to-one comms Signal is easier to get started with. Matrix requires a hosting service (or just reliance on the main matrix.org instance), or trust in a server administrator to run one. But it is good software. But unfortunately for group chat it's not as easy to get started as Discord, due to the encrypted nature of Matrix. But Discord shouldn't be considered secure or private, not really. It's just more proprietary spyware, at the end of the day.
Certainly, no matter what, no SMS.
Signal is incredibly dangerous, it's a US hosted and domiciled company, and they have a legal obligation to forward anything they know about you to the federal government if asked.
I wouldn't knock it until I learn of a situation where Signal handed data over to the government that wasn't encrypted mishmash or derived from side-channel that wasn't specifically related to Signal (the app or the protocol) itself. I do fully agree, however, that a phone number as a registration ID is bad.
But as it stands I don't consider the point that it's located in the USA to be fully incriminating. Just as I don't find it a problem that Matrix and Vector Creations were an offshoot from an Israeli tech company*. The protocol, and how it functions, are what matters.
*And yes, the major caveat here is that you can inspect and run the Matrix server code (Synapse or Dendrite), but not the Signal server code.
Read the section on NSL's (national security letters) in the link above. Any US domiciled company must give up it's data when asked, and it's illegal for them to tell their users they were forced to do so. The Obama regime admitted to issuing 60 of these every single day, there's no way Signal isn't compromised.
Matrix doesn't need to be hosted in the US, so they don't have that problem. Using any US-hosted service is a big no-no.
This is neither new information, nor something overlooked in the design of the software. Thats the point of end to end encryption and open source code: they can only give the data that they have access to, which is the sender, receiver, and timestamps, but we know they cannot decrypt messages in the middle, because it would show in the security implementation in the source code. This model prevents the carrier from knowing the contents of any messages they carry. Therefore, you have to attack one of the end point devices to get the contents, and all the warrants and secret letters in the world can't compell then to give up the content of your messages, because they do not have the means to do so.
There are legitimate problems with the security model, like its use of phone numbers as account identifiers, that render it a poor choice for doing Certain Things, but that alone does not prove it was designed as a honeypot, or that it has been secretly compromised in some way that can't be seen in the source code.
This really is worth emphasizing, because there are cases where we can reason about the kinds of exploits and vulnerabilities that do happen based on what we learn after the fact, or based on things that companies say they do or must do by implication even if they don't outright say it.
For example, I do not recommend Apple's iMessage. Why? It's an encrypted chat service, after all.
It's because when you use iCloud Backup they store the private keys. If they hold the private keys, they can decrypt the encrypted data whenever they're subpoenaed or whatever else. So if either party (you or your recipient) has this common feature enabled, your entire chat history is up for grabs. Apple themselves basically say as much here https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/sec3cac31735/web
Bonus reading. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT/
ffs
stay safe out there
I disagree with the idea that people should be so overcautious as to only communicate the ideas they support or share in closed, secure, completely anonymized spaces. Generally speaking, it is my belief that overzealous Left-wing security culture does more to harm the movement in the long run than help it.
How and what you choose to communicate is a personal decision, and you should make your own threat assessment to decide what to do. It's important to protect yourself. It's also important not to so easily allow ourselves and our beliefs to be siloed off to private corners of the Internet and not expressed openly in public.
I'm a junior member of the PSL and this is their party line. Use your real name, don't hide your face, tell people exactly what you believe and who you are, if it is at all feasible for you to do so. The more people brazenly and publicly oppose the Capitalist order, the better. I don't share my real name on the Internet because I don't want groypers harassing me, but I have zero fear of fascists breaking down my door and killing me in my home. This sort of thing is exceedingly rare and, if it did happen, I would die a martyr.
Getting arrested as a trans person means you have a high chance of being put into the wrong jail cell. Rates of violence against trans women in jail are astronomical. How you do not comprehend this is beyond me.
I do understand it. People should make their own personal threat assessments when deciding how private and secure to be with online and public communications.
What I'm pushing back against is not people making a personal decision to be more private and secure, which is their right; what I'm pushing back against is the insistence that queer and leftist people and groups should constantly be hiding themselves and their ideals away from the public at large.
I can make an analogy to something told to me by a Union representative: if you are worried about retaliation for support for the union, the best way to protect yourself is not to distance yourself or hide your affiliations; it's to loudly and proudly support the union, so they have a better case to claim your firing was retaliatory.
All revolutionary left-wing politics are inherently escalatory. You bait the oppressors into overstepping their bounds and giving people an excuse to be outraged. It's any one person's right to choose not to participate, and I won't hold it against them, but I believe it is unwise to recommend that the community at large hides itself away in anonymity. Our strength is in numbers, organization, and solidarity.
Just to be sure, you are trans yourself, right? I'm trying to figure out which community youre referring to
Damn, look at that one extension of green in that sea of pale yellow with warning signs in the South and Appalachia. That one safe spot that's just one train ride from Memphis, Jackson, New Orleans, Little Rock, and DFW; the spot that's just one bus ride from Nashville and then one connecting bus ride from most places in the South.
I wonder if they have a good pro-trans climate there.
For anyone curious, here's the bill in question: https://publications.tnsosfiles.com/acts/113/pub/pc1064.pdf
Apparently they dropped it being a felony in final version of the bill, it is now a cause for civil liability to "intentionally recruit, harbor, or transport an unemancipated minor within this state for the purpose of receiving a prohibited medical procedure under this chapter, regardless of where the medical procedure is to be procured." There are exceptions cut out for common carriers, the minor's parents or guardians, and anyone designated by the minor's parents or guardians and the civil action can only be initiated by the minor's parents or guardians.
I'm curious what counts as "recruiting" kids for trans health care.