89
2.5yr
28

There's been some progress recently, but it's still annoying

::: spoiler alt text Guy labeled "languages where everything is gendered" hovers menacingly, while a different guy labeled "non-binary people" runs away :::

LaughingLion [any, any] - 2.5yr

hungarian isnt gendered at all

not even gendered pronouns

you have to expressly mention gender if you want it known as far as i understand it

now you might think to yourself : "neat maybe ill learn some hungarian as a fun hobby" let me say, no, you wont. my great grandparents only spoke hungarian and its a bitch of a language to learn

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huf [he/him] - 2.5yr

oh yeah, remembered this funny thing, just as a demonstration of the genderless nature of hungarian.

so one of the points of the communist usage of comrade was that it's inclusive and non-gendered, right? now, we didnt borrow the word, we made up a translation: elvtárs. it means something like companion-in-principles or something. principle-mate.

AND THEN THEY MADE UP elvtársnő! to be used for women. it's the same word with "woman" stuck on the back.

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oscardejarjayes [comrade/them] - 2.5yr

neat, maybe ill learn some hungarian as a fun hobby. wow, "the hardest language to learn for an English speaker", can't be that bad.

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huf [he/him] - 2.5yr

eh, i doubt that's true. "one of the hardest european languages to learn for an english native" feels closer to the truth.

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oscardejarjayes [comrade/them] - 2.5yr

The internet lied to me? Wild

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huf [he/him] - 2.5yr

this is the usual anglocentric map: https://i.imgur.com/4ABYc7X.png

so basically indoeuropean languages supposedly get harder the further away you go from england, and then languages belonging to a different language family are super hard.

and i think languages spoken by non-whites are even harder, but that's not on this map, except for that bit of arabic in north africa. i'd guess they rate chinese as harder than arabic.

hungarian uses the latin alphabet, has a fairly phonetic spelling, has had extensive contact with indoeuropean languages and borrowed a shitton of words from them (scientific vocabulary is largely latin/greek for example). so it's not that bad in comparison.

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huf [he/him] - 2.5yr

eh, it's not that hard, babies can learn it.

but there's no point, especially for nonbinary people. because while the grammar of the language isnt gendered, the PEOPLE speaking said language are fascist scum for the most part, and think not spitting in a woman's eye is peak chivalry. yes, they think chivalry is still a thing.

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Abracadaniel [he/him] - 2.5yr

Babies can learn any language.

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huf [he/him] - 2.5yr

that thought lies at the heart of the joke, yes

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Abracadaniel [he/him] - 2.5yr

Sorry, my bad. I didn't catch that it was a joke since it was being used to support a serious point.

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Yurt_Owl - 2.5yr

I still don't understand languages that gender things, anyone able to explain why its a thing? Like what if you removed the gender from the word, would the language explode?

Remember learning French and thinking it was completely absurd

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CarmineCatboy [he/him] - 2.5yr

As far as portuguese is concerned it wouldn't just sound weird and break the grammar, it might even sound disrespectful. A lot of grammar is imposed from the top by language academies, but most of the language itself is socially constructed. So it's not like it's an easy change.

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theposterformerlyknownasgood - 2.5yr

The grammar would. You could probably easily "degender" Arabic by just making everything masculine, but you would have to pick one to be the one gender, it can't be neither. But you'd also have to invent a bunch of new words, or just declare that things with "real gender" is all gender neutral in its masculine form now. Brother is sibling and we won't have a word for brother.

Similarly in most Latin languages removing the gender totally would leave open questions of how grammar works. You'd have to decide formally how to do even basic stuff like pluralize which is now done according to gender. You COULD probably just decide you're going to use one of the genders, but it would require reworking the language from the bottom up.

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LaughingLion [any, any] - 2.5yr

im currently learning some spanish and the gendered thing might have some kind of deep linguistic and anthropological history behind it but mostly from what i can tell it comes down to the flow of the language, like la or el before a word has more to do with how that word flows in the masculine or feminine than anything else

there are exceptions of course like to my ear "la nina" flows off the tongue so much easier than "el nino" due to the placement of consonants being mashed too close together so when learning it i kind of just learn the gender with it because im not studying grammar or word lists but rather listening to the language spoken in context so the flow is always part of it

sometimes its just super obvious like try to say "la hombre" instead of "el hombre" its just so wierd like of course the word is masculine in that flowy sort of way you dont even need to know the word is referring to a man

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lorty @lemmygrad.ml - 2.5yr

Look, cars are obviously male and bridges are very clearly female. It makes so much sense that people just know it!

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Kaplya - 2.5yr

Not really, at least in Russian it depends on the ending consonant/vowel of the noun.

For example, car in Russian is mashina, it ends with -a which means it is a feminine noun.

I think it mostly has to do with how the pronunciation flows, like moya mashina (my car, with feminine singular moya as its possessive pronoun) obviously flows better than moy mashina (with masculine singular moy).

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lorty @lemmygrad.ml - 2.5yr

I definitely agree it has more to do with how it sounds than anything else. Just check how people gender foreign gender neutral words, it's pretty random.

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muddi [he/him] - 2.5yr

It's a historical grammatical thing. It's like a "tag" on one word that could be duplicated on another word (agreement of adjectives, verbs, etc. with a noun) so that information is not just preserved but error-corrected in case someone misspeaks or mishears.

Gender is actually a subset of class systems in general and is overblown because of bias towards Indo-European class systems which happen to be mostly along lines of gender.

Yeah I know, not really an improvement if we start calling it a class system instead of gender 😑

To answer your question, I guess a language could break down without this redundancy mechanism of class agreement. But then descendants of European languages like pidgins and creoles often just drop gender altogether and work just fine.

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DerEwigeAtheist [she/her, comrade/them] - 2.5yr

Persian does not have a grammatical gender, none, and it is relatively easy to learn. Easy grammar, but a lot of phrases

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TankieTanuki [he/him] - 2.5yr

German solves this by further complicating its declension with a third gender.

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fruityloop [they/them] - 2.5yr

arabic angry-hex

i'm not even out to 99 percent of people irl but i don't have a way to be referred to in arabic that's gender neutral anyways.

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Hestia [she/her, fae/faer] - 2.5yr

"Take it easy man"

angry-hex

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ChaosMaterialist [he/him, they/them] - 2.5yr

And then there's Latin, where everything has a gender except when it doesn't!

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theblueredditrefugee @lemmy.dbzer0.com - 2.5yr

Language that accommodates you by default is great. Last time I visited Mexico all I had to do to reveal my pronouns was to refer to myself and my wife as "nosotras". And then everyone refers to us as "amigas" and you feel so in-place.

Rare circumstance when being a trans lesbian is a benefit lmao

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