Hormone Vendor Estradiol Review and Qualitative Analysis
DISCLAIMER: This is not medical advice, engage in DIY HRT at your own risk; the intent of this post is harm reduction. This information is not intended for minors; by reading further you agree you are over the age of 21.
DISCLAIMER 2: This is not rigorous scientific research. I conducted this experiment over the course of a work day, carrying out my actual work while trying to not arouse suspicion. That being said, I am using these results to inform my own DIY HRT.
Earlier this year, I bought estradiol enanthate (EEn) from Dragon Ordnance ( dragonordnance.io or dragonordnance.com ; .io seems to be down but they’re run by the same people). Shipping was expensive ($50 I think) because they are located in China, but the prices are low ($5 for a gram that will last over 2 years). You have to email them for information on how to send payment, either sending cryptocurrency or a cash transfer via the Wise app. The people are really nice too; the person processing orders had COVID when I ordered and my order was delayed a week or two so they sent me double my order. I’m sitting on a 25 year supply now so I’m going to be giving away a lot of E to friends.
I also bought MCT oil as a solvent for the injectable solution and benzyl alcohol as a preservative from Dragon Ordnance. I used a volumetric flask to make a 50 mg/mL EEn solution with 2% v/v benzyl alcohol, but if you don’t have access to volumetric flasks you can make a vial with 500 mg EEn, 0.2 mL benzyl alcohol, and 9.35 mL MCT oil. This wiki is a good resource for DIY MtF HRT, but the owner of the group is an outspoken anti-communist. I plan on injecting 0.3 mL (15 mg EEn) every 14 days, but this wiki recommends 0.22 mL (11 mg EEn) every 7 or 10 days. Use distilled water to determine which liquid is MCT oil and which is benzyl alcohol. The MCT oil will float on distilled water, while the benzyl alcohol sinks. Also, 1 mL of benzyl alcohol will dissolve in 25 mL of water if you mix it thoroughly, while MCT oil will not dissolve in water.
I happen to be a chemist who has access to a variety of analytical instruments so I ran UPLC to test for purity and GC-MS to verify that the chemical is actually estradiol.
The UPLC chromatogram indicates very high purity (>99%), as only one peak was visible.
The extracted UV-Vis spectrum of the UPLC at 8.429 minutes (the sole peak above) was consistent with the expected UV absorption of estradiol esters.
The GC-MS chromatogram similarly indicated the presence of just one compound at 26.628 minutes (the first peak is the solvent I used, and the following two peaks are solvents commonly used in our lab and are likely only present in this chromatogram due to residue on the sample injection needle). The small peak between 14 and 15 minutes is likely a breakdown product formed in the harsh GC conditions.
The mass spectrum at 26.628 minutes indicates the compound is estradiol enanthate. The NIST library we use indicated a >90% chance that the compound is some estradiol derivative based on the fragmentation. The base peak at 384.3 m/z is sufficient evidence to identify the compound as estradiol enanthate, which has a molar mass of 384.56 g/mol.
I am confident that the powder sent by Dragon Ordnance is high purity estradiol enanthate and would highly recommend this vendor for their low price, quality product, and good service.
kristina [she/her] - 2.6yr
This wiki is a good resource for DIY MtF HRT, but the owner of the group is an outspoken anti-communist
how can you be like this as a trans person handling DIY shit
44
Saoirse [she/her, comrade/them] - 2.4yr
truly, like, have some self-respect, at least be an anarchist.
This is a really good post, thank you. I was wondering how you're planning to sterilize your injectables? I know Lena says you can boil them, but is that actually a reasonable thing to do? Or do you have access to an autoclave?
25
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
Thanks! I don’t have access to an autoclave but tbh you don’t really need to even boil them. The benzyl alcohol will kill anything in the solution except the endospores. The autoclave kills bacterial spores IIRC from my microbiology course, but the risk is very low for IM injections (not an expert on this so look into it further if you’re worried). Boiling will NOT kill endospores, so IMO, there’s no difference between boiling and just using benzyl alcohol.
22
gaycomputeruser [she/her] - 2.6yr
For my own comfort, please make sure that anyone else using your stuff is made aware of the possibility. You mentioned giving away some of the excess.
16
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
Absolutely!
15
silent_water [she/her] - 2.6yr
you can use an oven that goes up to 200C -- estradiol won't break down at this temperature. to be safe, I recommend lowering the temp to 180C and doubling the time -- i.e. 1h instead of 30m -- in the oven as oven temps aren't always the most precise. you can get a small oven for this purpose on Amazon for fairly cheap.
16
WoofWoof91 [comrade/them] - 2.6yr
I can vouch for this poster
21
Des [she/her, they/them] - 2.6yr
saving this post. i already dabble with gray market research chems and you're telling me i can apply my amateur chemistry nerdism to trans myself??!?
21
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
You can accomplish a lot with chemistry and determination! Unfortunately to do all this testing you have to have access to some pricey instruments. The UPLC was around $50,000 and the GC-MS was well over $100,000. But I’m willing to risk my job to make sure I know what I’m injecting into my butt
19
gaycomputeruser [she/her] - 2.6yr
Thanks for using instrumentation to get real results, and reporting them scientifically. Lack of equiptment to verify purity is one of the big sticking points for diy hrt injectibles. Unfortunately this doesn't guarantee that the supplier will be pure in the future.
How many samples did you run to verify homogeneity? How do you plan on storing it? Does estradiol decompose at this time scale?
19
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
Just one sample haha. Was trying to do it quick to not to get fired. I’m not too worried about problems with homogeneity since the powder appeared to be that of a pure compound (fine, white powder).
16
gaycomputeruser [she/her] - 2.6yr
Fair enough, I get nervous with injectables. Any thoughts on storage and decomposition?
12
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
Once in solution you can store in a cool, dry, dark place and it should be good for 3 years. Powder should be stable for a lot longer though
Like, how long are we talking before it's below some standard threshold of potency?
Can you take it as a powder?
8
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
I would trust the potency to not be a problem for the duration of the typical manufacturer recommendation of 3 years. That is if you follow storage instructions (cool, dark, and dry). Light and heat will especially be problems for decomposing estradiol esters. You can take the powder sublingually but you have to measure out 2 mg daily and make sure to get this extremely small amount under your tongue. If injections are a problem, you could get 17-beta-estradiol and make a gel that you just apply to your skin once or twice daily. Here’s a guide for that https://groups.io/g/MTFHRT/wiki/30843
9
Awoo [she/her] - 2.6yr
Anything here that would come back to you at work if Dragon Ordnance saw this and it potentially got attention? It's not unusual for brands to track mentions of themselves online, especially the small ones.
18
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
I don’t see anything identifiable. Thanks for looking out though!
17
Awoo [she/her] - 2.6yr
Yeah just thought I'd mention there's a non-zero chance someone sees this at some point, even on hexbear. Smaller companies that get less mentions are actually much more likely to see their mentions compared to the well known ones too.
12
TGhost [She/Her] - 2.6yr
Honestly,
I just didn't expect the use of a gcms in this context and for this purpose.
Love this post, saved and TY VM !
16
trans_chemist [none/use name] - 2.6yr
Glad you liked it! Yeah, most labs don’t use GC-MS for quality assurance because they know what they’re making, but it’s such a good instrument for identifying unknown compounds!
13
TGhost [She/Her] - 2.6yr
Oh yeah, I clearly agree.
When I see this, I can't avoid to think, that should be normalized for a producer to provide this kind of information,
trans_chemist in traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
Hormone Vendor Estradiol Review and Qualitative Analysis
DISCLAIMER: This is not medical advice, engage in DIY HRT at your own risk; the intent of this post is harm reduction. This information is not intended for minors; by reading further you agree you are over the age of 21.
DISCLAIMER 2: This is not rigorous scientific research. I conducted this experiment over the course of a work day, carrying out my actual work while trying to not arouse suspicion. That being said, I am using these results to inform my own DIY HRT.
Earlier this year, I bought estradiol enanthate (EEn) from Dragon Ordnance ( dragonordnance.io or dragonordnance.com ; .io seems to be down but they’re run by the same people). Shipping was expensive ($50 I think) because they are located in China, but the prices are low ($5 for a gram that will last over 2 years). You have to email them for information on how to send payment, either sending cryptocurrency or a cash transfer via the Wise app. The people are really nice too; the person processing orders had COVID when I ordered and my order was delayed a week or two so they sent me double my order. I’m sitting on a 25 year supply now so I’m going to be giving away a lot of E to friends.
I also bought MCT oil as a solvent for the injectable solution and benzyl alcohol as a preservative from Dragon Ordnance. I used a volumetric flask to make a 50 mg/mL EEn solution with 2% v/v benzyl alcohol, but if you don’t have access to volumetric flasks you can make a vial with 500 mg EEn, 0.2 mL benzyl alcohol, and 9.35 mL MCT oil. This wiki is a good resource for DIY MtF HRT, but the owner of the group is an outspoken anti-communist. I plan on injecting 0.3 mL (15 mg EEn) every 14 days, but this wiki recommends 0.22 mL (11 mg EEn) every 7 or 10 days. Use distilled water to determine which liquid is MCT oil and which is benzyl alcohol. The MCT oil will float on distilled water, while the benzyl alcohol sinks. Also, 1 mL of benzyl alcohol will dissolve in 25 mL of water if you mix it thoroughly, while MCT oil will not dissolve in water.
I happen to be a chemist who has access to a variety of analytical instruments so I ran UPLC to test for purity and GC-MS to verify that the chemical is actually estradiol.
The UPLC chromatogram indicates very high purity (>99%), as only one peak was visible.
The extracted UV-Vis spectrum of the UPLC at 8.429 minutes (the sole peak above) was consistent with the expected UV absorption of estradiol esters.
The GC-MS chromatogram similarly indicated the presence of just one compound at 26.628 minutes (the first peak is the solvent I used, and the following two peaks are solvents commonly used in our lab and are likely only present in this chromatogram due to residue on the sample injection needle). The small peak between 14 and 15 minutes is likely a breakdown product formed in the harsh GC conditions.
The mass spectrum at 26.628 minutes indicates the compound is estradiol enanthate. The NIST library we use indicated a >90% chance that the compound is some estradiol derivative based on the fragmentation. The base peak at 384.3 m/z is sufficient evidence to identify the compound as estradiol enanthate, which has a molar mass of 384.56 g/mol.
I am confident that the powder sent by Dragon Ordnance is high purity estradiol enanthate and would highly recommend this vendor for their low price, quality product, and good service.
truly, like, have some self-respect, at least be an anarchist.
Great work! You think you could try submitting this to resources like https://transharmreduction.org/hrt-testing that have more visibility?
Great idea! I’ll do that!
This is a really good post, thank you. I was wondering how you're planning to sterilize your injectables? I know Lena says you can boil them, but is that actually a reasonable thing to do? Or do you have access to an autoclave?
Thanks! I don’t have access to an autoclave but tbh you don’t really need to even boil them. The benzyl alcohol will kill anything in the solution except the endospores. The autoclave kills bacterial spores IIRC from my microbiology course, but the risk is very low for IM injections (not an expert on this so look into it further if you’re worried). Boiling will NOT kill endospores, so IMO, there’s no difference between boiling and just using benzyl alcohol.
For my own comfort, please make sure that anyone else using your stuff is made aware of the possibility. You mentioned giving away some of the excess.
Absolutely!
you can use an oven that goes up to 200C -- estradiol won't break down at this temperature. to be safe, I recommend lowering the temp to 180C and doubling the time -- i.e. 1h instead of 30m -- in the oven as oven temps aren't always the most precise. you can get a small oven for this purpose on Amazon for fairly cheap.
I can vouch for this poster
saving this post. i already dabble with gray market research chems and you're telling me i can apply my amateur chemistry nerdism to trans myself??!?
You can accomplish a lot with chemistry and determination! Unfortunately to do all this testing you have to have access to some pricey instruments. The UPLC was around $50,000 and the GC-MS was well over $100,000. But I’m willing to risk my job to make sure I know what I’m injecting into my butt
Thanks for using instrumentation to get real results, and reporting them scientifically. Lack of equiptment to verify purity is one of the big sticking points for diy hrt injectibles. Unfortunately this doesn't guarantee that the supplier will be pure in the future.
How many samples did you run to verify homogeneity? How do you plan on storing it? Does estradiol decompose at this time scale?
Just one sample haha. Was trying to do it quick to not to get fired. I’m not too worried about problems with homogeneity since the powder appeared to be that of a pure compound (fine, white powder).
Fair enough, I get nervous with injectables. Any thoughts on storage and decomposition?
Once in solution you can store in a cool, dry, dark place and it should be good for 3 years. Powder should be stable for a lot longer though
Like, how long are we talking before it's below some standard threshold of potency? Can you take it as a powder?
I would trust the potency to not be a problem for the duration of the typical manufacturer recommendation of 3 years. That is if you follow storage instructions (cool, dark, and dry). Light and heat will especially be problems for decomposing estradiol esters. You can take the powder sublingually but you have to measure out 2 mg daily and make sure to get this extremely small amount under your tongue. If injections are a problem, you could get 17-beta-estradiol and make a gel that you just apply to your skin once or twice daily. Here’s a guide for that https://groups.io/g/MTFHRT/wiki/30843
Anything here that would come back to you at work if Dragon Ordnance saw this and it potentially got attention? It's not unusual for brands to track mentions of themselves online, especially the small ones.
I don’t see anything identifiable. Thanks for looking out though!
Yeah just thought I'd mention there's a non-zero chance someone sees this at some point, even on hexbear. Smaller companies that get less mentions are actually much more likely to see their mentions compared to the well known ones too.
Honestly,
I just didn't expect the use of a gcms in this context and for this purpose.
Love this post, saved and TY VM !
Glad you liked it! Yeah, most labs don’t use GC-MS for quality assurance because they know what they’re making, but it’s such a good instrument for identifying unknown compounds!
Oh yeah, I clearly agree.
When I see this, I can't avoid to think, that should be normalized for a producer to provide this kind of information,
Yeah, trans_chemist! Yeah SCIENCE!